Most sophisticated music fans avoid cover bands like the plague. But audiophiles around the country have been drawn to the Frank Zappa tribute band Project Object (P/O) like bees to honey. Zappa freaks, critics, musicians and tapers have been enthusiastically supporting P/O for years.  Perhaps P/O is the only cover band in the country that is actually respected just because they are a cover band instead of being ridiculed for it. But then again, there are very few Zappa cover bands in the world. Zappa wrote some of the most adventurous, diverse and complex music ever written. It was music so difficult that quite often Zappa's own band even had trouble performing it. Being able to perform over 100 Zappa songs shows the incredible musical talent of P/O. You have to be a virtuoso to be able to play Zappa's music properly and if they gave out black belts for musicianship each member of the P/O would have one.

P/O effortlessly and faithfully recreate Zappa's music. Sometimes they even play songs or complete albums that Zappa himself never played live. "We go beyond Zappa," said guitarist Andre Cholmondeley. "I know that sounds pompous and nothing can go beyond Frank in actuality. But we try to challenge him and do some tunes he never did." However, P/O is not just about the music. They duplicate the general vibe of a Frank Zappa show in many other ways. P/O always encourages audience participation. This can include audience members reading poetry, doing interpretive dance, or throwing underwear and lingerie on stage. Humor is a big part of the show as well and there are always lots of social and political jokes about current events.

There is in fact a direct link between P/O and Frank Zappa himself. For the last few years guitarist and vocalist Ike Willis, one of Zappa's most beloved sidemen, has joined P/O. Willis recorded several Zappa studio albums and also toured with him for over a decade. Willis is most famous for his role as Joe on Joe's Garage. He will also be on board for P/O's upcoming West Coast tour from mid April-May. The band is touring heavily to promote their new album, Absolutely Live (Phoenix Presents) and will also have a June residency at Wetlands. For tour dates and information about the new album check out www.projectobject.com and www.radiophoenix.com. I spoke with Andre Cholmondeley (vocals/guitar), Robbie "Seahag" Mangano (impossible guitar), Wes Paich (vocals/drums/keys), Mumbo (vocals/drums/keys) and Jordan Shapiro (keys) about recreating the Zappa music and magic. These musicians are not just Zappa clones. They are all in several other bands, too many bands to even mention here. And they are all extremely well rounded individuals as well. For example Andre owns a health food store called Second Nature in Red Bank, NJ and Wes and Mumbo build and sell handmade drums. You can learn all about their other diverse projects at www.projectobject.com. P/O will be coming to Zappify your hometown in the upcoming months.  

AJ: Your shows are so long and the Zappa catalogue so large and diverse that choosing which songs to put on the album must have been very difficult. What criteria were used to decide on the songs and what was the selection process like?  

Andre: The good news is that we had some limits. One of which was we wanted to use shorter songs so that we could get some radio airplay.   They are not going to play 22-minute jams. We wanted songs that could keep people's attention better if they never heard the band. The disc is a taster, a sampler, and just the tip of the iceberg. It strikes a good balance between "here's what we really can do" (King Kong for example) and the stuff that every Zappa fan wants to hear like Cosmik Debris.  

AJ: It must have been cool to have Sam Kopper (of Phoenix Presents) help produce the live album. Didn't he record some Frank Zappa concerts for radio?  

Andre: He worked on the historic 1981 Halloween concert broadcast. I was 16 and just getting into Zappa and the concert was on FM and MTV. It was the first ever digital simulcast. MTV was very young and I still have the tape. And Sam Kopper was on with Nina Blackwood. That was an inspirational show because that was a Zappa band that we based our sound on. We duplicate the 1981-84 Zappa band with lots of keyboards and guitar. We have three guitarists, with Seahag there to do our Steve Vai impossible guitar parts. We have two drummers where Mumbo is the heavy rock drummer and Wes plays similar to Chad Wackerman with precise jazz oriented beats.  

AJ: Seahag, how did you get to fill the Steve Vai "stunt guitar" role?  Do you play any normal lead or rhythm guitar or do you just concentrate on doing the insane parts?  

Seahag: I was always a Steve Vai fan growing up and then I started getting really into Zappa in college. When Boxy couldn't make a P/O tour, Andre asked me for my services to play the keyboard parts on guitar. So I learned a lot of the crazy stuff that I now double harmonize with him since he joined the group. We did two tours without a main keyboard player, in which I had to play mostly keyboard voicings and parts. Jordan is on keyboards full time and I try to do all the things that aren't there already. I kind of listen to the songs and hear what is not there and try to get it in there within my parts. It could be a missing horn line, overdubbed synth line, vocal part or whatever. I play rhythm guitar, lead guitar, and insane parts. I like playing all of them equally, although the insane parts feel more like working than the rocking out rhythm parts do.  

AJ: You guys are the only tag team drummer/keyboard tandem I have ever seen. This isn't the WWF you know! What's it like to share the duties? (The two drummers never play drums at the same time. When one person is on drums the other plays synthesizers.)  

Wes: Mumbo makes me share. We've thought of trading songs like baseball cards.  

Mumbo: Sometimes good, sometimes bad. Sometimes there are songs you want to play but you know that song is more tailored to the other guy.  

AJ: What are the differences in your drumming/keyboard styles?  

Wes: Mumbo is much better at supporting a solo, improvisationally speaking. I like to count.  

Mumbo: I'm louder! As far as keyboards...Wes can play them.  

AJ: In concert you guys often improvise lyrics as well as the music. Compare vocal improv to musical improv.  

Andre: Vocal improv is a bit tougher because it comes less naturally. You have to think in this whole conscious voice. With musical improv you can just sit on a note until you think of what you want to play next.  

Wes: I'm a much better drummer than I am a singer. However, you do get to say things like "cornholed" and "poop chute" as legitimate lyrics.  

AJ: Wes you also conduct the band during certain portions of the show. Do you feel the power of controlling the band when you conduct? Do you ever force them to play something you know they don't want to play?  

Wes: It's very cool conducting this band. Everyone's an inventive musician with good ears for composition. They do pay attention to the signals. For changing feels or time signatures it's important for it to be a cohesive unit. It would be impossible to force this band to do anything they didn't want to do. But it's fun trying.  

Mumbo: Wes feels the awesome power of apples in powersauce!  

AJ: How did Zappa's death effect you as a musician?  

Andre: Wow, that's a heavy question, It's tough to put in words.  It made me realize that you better make a statement when you can and are able to because nothing lasts forever. Even though he had cancer we were still sucker punched, nobody saw it coming. Inspirationally it became much more important to keep the music alive. It made me immediately want to work on my craft more. Once he died P/O became more of a sacred kind of job.  

AJ: Have you ever felt the power of Zappa's presence at a show?  

Andre: As corny as it is, I would say yes. Just a few prominent times and it was a fucked up experience. It's pointless to put in words. It was like a dreamscape and Frank took control. People's energy can manifest itself later on.  

AJ: How did you decide to play One Size Fits All in its entirety on this tour?  

Mumbo: We had to tell people to stop with the Joe's Garage thing.  

Wes: It was the album we knew the most of at the time.  

Andre: It was a great turning point for Zappa. It was the start of a whole new style of guitar playing for him. Actually, we've done it before as well as a few other albums. We've done most of our complete albums in New Jersey or New York. But we always get people from all over the country writing us and asking us to do the whole record again. But obviously we can't do it out of our ass in the middle of a show. So we are beginning to do the entire albums elsewhere around the country. We are also learning a new one for the summer tour. But we have to keep it secret for now.  

AJ: How many different Zappa songs do you know? Do you do the same set every night?  

Andre: It's getting crazy. We know over 100 and we're looking at having 65 tunes ready for this tour. We do change the sets up every night. It's one of the beautiful things of being on tour but its also one of the torturous things. We also mix it up tour to tour. This tour we have about 10 new tunes. We're always bringing back stuff from the past and creating new arrangements.  

AJ: Since Zappa songs are so complex, does that make it harder to change the show from night to night?  

Wes: Yes, not all of our songs are perfectly ready to play all the time.  

Mumbo: Way harder! Most of us have fuckin' day jobs so we don't get the amount of rehearsal we want. So mixing up the songs all depends on which ones we get to dust off or learn before touring.  

Andre: It does, but once we have the tunes down we just have to plug 'em into the show. We sit on the bus on the way to the gig and make up our setlists. Our ace setmeister is Rick. He comes up with these amazing sets and makes sure we stay interesting and don't do the same sets. He has a setlist book that has every show that we've done for years. For example if we are in Atlanta, he knows what we played last time we were in Atlanta. So he makes sure we do something different. He keeps us honest.  

AJ: What song do you want to play but haven't had the chance to yet?  

Andre: That list is getting smaller and smaller because we've been playing so much. For me it's Lonely Little Girl or some stuff from Jazz From Hell. I'd love to do stuff from that album which is all electronic and we can all play keyboards with no drums.  

Wes: G-spot Tornado, Approximate.  

Mumbo: G-spot Tornado.  

AJ: How hard is it for you to play an almost perfect show given the complex music you are performing?  

Andre: We usually have something to complain about. We haven't played the perfect show but we've come close a couple of times. The sound engineer has to be right on. He has to be listening to us and be professional and give us what we want. If the band can't hear themselves then the band is finished, we're doomed. A perfect night needs a great sound system and someone who knows how to run it. And we also need a great crowd. Our shows at the Lions Den in NYC are always great because we get an insane audience and the sound engineer knows us. The best nights are when it all arrives at the same time.

    We really do need the crowd to help and we need audience participation. Frank always wanted audience participation in the gigs. We've got a double whammy because we're recreating something. We're there as fans too, and it's a unique relationship. Hang in there with us and let's see if we can do these tunes right. And more often than not we do. But the train wrecks are there. When you make a mistake you just have to get up and dust yourself off. And we've got tapers out there, so all our mistakes are being captured.  

AJ: Zappa said that the Society Pages>Beautiful Guy>Beauty Knows No Pain>Charlie's Enormous Mouth was an extremely difficult sequence. He said it was a nightly challenge to replicate it in concert. But you really seem to have perfected it. How do you do it so well?  

Andre: Well, 15-20 years of hearing it over and over helps. Just exposure to the tune for a long time and being crazy enough to do it so it sounds real. Ike also cracks the whip to make sure we do it right. I mean he was there when it was just a two-chord idea in Frank's mind. He will show us stuff that Frank wrote in the original version but changed.   And another aspect is just having the tools of the modern era. It's so much easier to learn from a CD than record. I can't believe how those old jazz guys did it with a vinyl record. Today we have devices to slow down licks. We also have Seahag and Jordan transcribe the stuff.  

AJ: Do they transcribe all the songs?  

Andre: Just a handful. They step in with paperwork for the crazy shit. If it's some weird orchestrated part the pencil comes out to figure it out.  

AJ: Can you describe the transcription process?  

Jordan: Well, transcribing is sort of a love/hate thing with me. Mainly because it takes a lot of time to do a full transcription. Now I would rather learn the part by looking at sheet music because I know I can learn it faster that way, and I don't have to worry about the possibility of forgetting the music forever. The actual transcription process involves listening to a short clip of music many many times over until you can play it on your instrument.  

Seahag: Usually, if it's a fast passage, I stop the player after about four notes. And my memory hears those notes as just a four-note melody and I write it down. And listen to the next 4 for example. Soon ya have 60 notes and it starts to make sense rhythmically. Then what ya gotta do is figure out how to play it without thinking. You have to practice it and get it in your muscle memory, because my mind doesn't tell my fingers what to play fast enough. Your fingers have to know where they are going next. They call that muscle memory.  

AJ: How long does it take to do it?  

Jordan: It all depends on how long and how tricky the passage I am transcribing is. I might have to transcribe one little section in a certain song, which could take ten minutes to get down. However, most of the transcriptions I've done are for complete songs and that could take days to get down.  

AJ: Does the band actually need to bring the sheet music on stage for gigs?  

Jordan: I think I'm the only guy in the band that ever brings sheet music on stage for gigs. Right now, in any given show, there might be two or three songs that I still need to rely on some sort of  "cheat sheet" in order to pull off some of the runs. I definitely wish I didn't have to use them, since I know I play the songs that I don't need music for a lot better than the ones I do need music for.  

AJ: Once you guys decide to add a new song to the setlist how long does it take to get from rehearsal into the show?  

Jordan: It depends on the song. Usually we'll all decide on a song or two to learn and we'll listen to it at home by ourselves, trying to learn our part. Once we start practicing it together at rehearsals, we'll figure out how much work it needs. Sometimes it works itself out and then it's no problem to get it ready in time for the gig. However, the harder tunes need a lot of attention at rehearsal and might take a tour or two until they are ready to be played at a gig.  

Seahag: Homework for everyone is involved.  

Andre: Yea, it's all about how much homework we all do.  

AJ: Why not incorporate a few originals into the band?  

Andre: Occasionally we have and it has been discussed for the future. We have had our original bands open up for P/O. There's a master plan to bring in more originals in the future or to record all of our originals as a P/O CD. But we really don't do originals because people come to hear Zappa music. There's just so much Zappa to cover. I really appreciate the fan's support of our original bands. At P/O shows they buy our original band's CDs and they come to see our other bands live.  

Mumbo: We all have jobs and are struggling just playing the Zappa tunes. But we all want to do that real soon.  

AJ: What makes P/O different from other cover bands?  

Wes: We don't play any Pearl Jam.  

Mumbo: Other cover bands have about 50-70 songs to choose from. (All work and no beer make Homer something, something!) But Frank has like 400 songs or sumptin' and playing them right is a life long task. Plus we get to sing songs about ramming things up your poop shoot!  

AJ: It's not just the music that makes your shows so much like Zappa shows it's the whole package. How are you able to create that Zappa magic and spirit in way other than just the music?  

Andre: You're probably talking' about the "garlic" as Frank used to say. We have such respect for him and we have soaked in so many boots. Plus the audience is always going to be involved. Frank used to encourage people to bring stuff up to the stage and so do we. We always get some freaks to give us some crazy shit. We try to keep every night different just like he did. Another thing we try to recreate is the political and topical stuff. Frank read the paper everyday and watched CNN and he was a newshound. So am I. I listen to talk radio, NPR, and read left and right wing press. Zappa is one of those who have influenced me to keep up with what's going on in the world. You've got to soak up all you can and then filter out the bullshit. You need the bullshit filter as Frank used to say. At shows someone will yell something out that they just saw and it will become a theme for the night. It could be a politician or whatnot or it could be something in the news you name it. Ike has sharpened my wit because he is so on and so hilarious. All day we will sit in the van and think ahead to where we can slip in some topical joke into the songs. We change the lyrics as well. We look at songs Frank always changed and those are the ones we pick too. Cosmik Debris and Montana are two songs we change all the time.  

AJ: Have you ever done anything so crazy or sang lyrics that were so obnoxious that you got a negative reaction from the crowd?  

Andre: Frank used to say to the audience. "Is there anyone offended by this?" Well if you are than go fuck yourself." Luckily we don't get the prudes. But there are political things that don't go over so well sometimes. During the recent election there were times we said some Bush jokes and people did not laugh. But then you go in to NYC and folks are screaming at the same jokes. We'll be in North Carolina and the joke doesn't go as good.  

AJ: Zappa has some really weird music. What song has the strangest effect on the crowd?    

Mumbo: Titties and Beer  

Wes: Yeah, Mumbo's right.  

AJ: You've got a zillion different musicians, guitars, keyboards and effects up there. What are your shows like from a technical standpoint?  

Wes: I hate wires - and I've got lots of 'em.  

Mumbo: We all have some pretty old equipment and we drag it all over the U.S., which really gives it a beating. But we actually need MORE shit. Wes and I want a mallet Kat (pretty much an electric Xylophone) 'cause we are DRUMMERS and doing these marimba lines on keys with our fingers sucks...give us a pair of mallets and we will burn those lines up! P.S. anyone out there in TV-land that wants to get rid of a mallet Kat or the likes, please email us @ our website. Thanks.  

AJ: What song do you play that is most identical to the original Zappa version?  

Seahag: I think we mix album versions and live versions of particular Zappa songs and come up with its child.  

Andre: Well, we screw'em all up in one way or another, but maybe Duke of Prunes. That was about the first Zappa tune I ever learned over 15 years ago. And I still screw something up in it.  

AJ: What song do you change the arrangement the most drastically from the original Zappa version?  

Seahag: We don't really change much. We're not about changing the music. Does an orchestra change Beethoven's music?