by Andy Tennille

On March 30, following the opening night of the "New School of Gov't Mule" tour, I had the opportunity to sit down and talk with Dave Schools, longtime member of Widespread Panic and bassist for the "New School." Despite hearing rumors that he was an intensely private individual, I found Dave to be a very friendly and generous interview subject. We talked about a number of different topics, ranging from his friendship with the late Allen Woody, his current side projects, his experience as a member of Widespread Panic and what he likes to do late at night in the basement of his home in Athens.

Widespread Panic's new album, Don't Tell the Band, is slated to be released on June 19 and summer tour plans are still pending. Additional information is available at http://www.widespreadpanic.com. The Gov't Mule web site is http://www.mule.net.

AT: Let's start with the show last night, your tour opener with the Mule. Any reactions?

DS: Well, you know, we were all pretty happy with it. The crowd was enthusiastic, the band played well. There weren't any real serious wipeouts. And I think that's pretty good, all things considered, given the number of songs we had to absorb with three days of rehearsal. [laughs] But everybody was really happy with it and we really dug the crowd. The crowd made us feel good

.

AT: One thing I noticed from last night was the different basses you played. Where's the Modulus [the bass he uses with Widespread Panic]? Is it on the way?

DS: Well, I've always enjoyed vintage basses and guitars and things. I've actually been collecting them hard for the last couple of years. [Allen] Woody was a big collector. God, he probably brought home twenty guitars from every Gov't Mule tour. With Panic, there's really not much of an opportunity and there's no need, because I play a six-string [Modulus] and it's an amorphous, improvisational kind of thing. The Modulus is the logical choice. But with this band, there's a lot of different tunings involved: some drop tunings, some E flats. And the Modulus comes in handy for the drop tunings.

The thing is, the bass I had been using to rehearse in New York "shit the bed", so to speak. We got the schematics faxed over from Bardlini and we couldn't make heads or tails of it. So I had to call my tech in Athens yesterday who's assisting with the mix-down of the new Panic record, and get him to ship me another bass. He FedExed it up here and it got here so, the six-string will make its appearance tonight.

It's been really fun to play some of these old guitars. The tones work really well with some of these pieces. It's great to actually get them out of the house. They're enjoying it. They get to breathe a little bit.

AT: What's it like playing with Warren? Playing with Panic and playing with Warren has got to be a little different. The styles are a little contrasting…

DS: Well, you know, there's a similar spiritual connection in the free form and the guitar-oriented nature of the music. Obviously, Warren's got soul. JB has soul. Warren loves to play and Mikey loves to play.

Warren and I were laughing about something last night. He and Trey Anastasio are really the only two guitar players that have ever sat in with Widespread that could do it, and not make Mikey get freaked out or anything. They sort of follow his lead and weave in and out and it's because they're good listeners and improvisers.

Warren is really a utilitarian player in the fact that he can play with anyone, in any style. He's terrific and I've always enjoyed playing with him, so for me, it's a great thing. Normally, I'd be sitting at home twiddling my thumbs and instead I'm out here playing with three of the greatest musicians I've ever had the pleasure of sharing the stage with. It's an honor and it's fun. What more can you ask for.

AT: Obviously, the original Mule had a real power trio-type sound. With the death of Allen Woody this fall and the coming together of this line-up, how is your playing different, within the context of this band, from what you do with Panic?

DS: The Mule thing has been really challenging. First of all, I have to keep in my heart and in my head that I'm stepping into Allen's shoes, even though we are sort of taking the slant that it's a new beginning. This experience is something that is helping us all heal over the loss of a really great guy. I can't imagine how it really affected some of these other folks- I know what I've seen and it breaks my heart. With all of that in mind, the first and foremost thing is, not necessarily what would Woody do, but what would the feel he'd be using and to sort of take that as a starting point for what I want to do with it.

Obviously, it's more challenging in that the songs are brilliantly complex in the sort of simplicity with which they are easily digested. I know that's a lot of word soup, but basically they sound like they'd be easy to play but they're not.

AT: It seems like you play a lot of notes with the Mule. It seems like you're very active on the stage from what I saw last night.

DS: Well, that has a lot to do with Matt Abts. Locking in rhythmically and spiritually with the drummer is what builds a good foundation for soloists like Warren and Chuck to work off. That's the other most important thing. I think that if Matt hadn't approved, as a technician, of the work I'd done in the past couple of jams, it never would have happened. He has to be comfortable and he sets the pace for everything. Last night was really good because we got comfortable and got past all the challenging stuff and started to have a little fun, which is important.

So it's challenging. There's a lot of dynamic, but there's also a lot of finesse playing. It's weird because it is sort of a finesse, power mix. It's tough. Allen was really good at being really strong and powerful, but also being very skillful and darting in and out.

And that's different from Panic. With Panic, I can do just about anything I want. I've been doing it for fifteen years. We've done almost 3000 shows. I can play a different bass line every time we play "Traveling Light" or "Driving Song" or any of those things. It all has to do with feel and I'm sure once this quartet gets more comfortable with each other and used to playing that more of that will happen. At this point right now, it's really sort of jump in and hang on. And play what the part calls for. Nothing more and nothing less. It is a challenge in that respect.

AT: You touched on Allen's style a little bit. It's kind of interesting because, of all the people Warren and Matt could have chosen to play this tour with them, they chose you. Mike Gordon is off right now and Oteil just got done with the Allman's run at the Beacon, so there are a lot of different styles they could have brought in. And they brought someone in who blows air and can get loud. If anyone out there can get as loud as Allen could, you're the man….

DS: [Laughs] You know what, I really think that this tour was not a preconceived thing. What did have a lot of thought put into it was the One for Woody tribute concert last fall. And I really think that more than anything, I was thought of for that simply because Allen and I were really close. Mule and Panic did a lot of shows and we're similar stylistically as bass players. We almost look alike and we used to have fun together. I think that there was more of an emotional and friendship thing involved, sort of "Let's get Dave up to do the One for Woody because he needs to be here for his broken heart." It was a gathering of all the people who knew and loved Woody.

I think from that, and because it was fun for all of us, Warren called me and asked me to come do the Christmas jam in Asheville, which was a bit more of a longer set. It was around then that we seriously started thinking, "Well, you know, if we have the time, let's do a little tour." If you guys feel like you want to continue the Gov't Mule thing, let's do it because I'm available, basically. And it worked out. Throwing Chuck into the mix is…..

AT: That's icing on the cake….

DS: Yeah. Chuck is like musical glue, man. Having him in the mix changes it from a three-piece to a four-piece, which takes, I'm sure, a lot of pressure off of Warren, rhythmically. And it gives him another sparring partner for solos. And it takes a lot of pressure off me, because I don't have to really have to do the "Allen Woody thing," so to speak. Allen was the perfect three-piece bass player, and I'm sure he was the perfect bass player for anything he ever did. Chuck's presence gives me a little more leeway, as far as the things I'm good at and the reasons why I was brought into this thing in the first place. It's quite an honor to be playing with him and doing this. So, I think it'll be fun and I think that anyone who sees these twenty or so shows will really have something to keep in their musical pockets as a memory. Maybe we'll record something on multi-track and hopefully there will be a document. The future is really up to Warren and Matt as far as Gov't Mule goes. Warren is like the busiest guy in showbusiness…

AT: He plays with everyone….

DS: And as well he should. I think that he is probably one of the most…he's not underrated, that would be the wrong word. Let's just say he deserves the same kind of respect that any guitar hero that's in the Top 10 should have. He's a great songwriter, a prolific songwriter and he's a marvelous stylist. He's a unique person and probably one of the nicest guys on the face of the Earth. To me, that just says that this guy deserves all of the happiness he can get.

AT: Definitely. You mentioned the One for Woody show. Pretty amazing night. What's your favorite memory from the show?

DS: There are lots of different kinds of memories. I was really nervous and it flew and I maybe dropped a few bricks. By the time I got to "Low Spark," it was cruise control and it was great. That felt good. I felt like Allen was proud of me, up there going "Schools, Schools".

Then of course, it was really, really heart-wrenching when they were doing "Wish You Were Here," and they were showing the video clips. I was crying. I'm man enough to admit it. I hadn't seen him in a while and we were supposed to hook up with him in Buffalo, but we cancelled that show. If that had been the case, I would have seen him about a month before he passed away. But I didn't, so it really had been quite some time, like seven or eight months. So that hurt.

But watching everyone come together for something like that was special. I think the one thing I heard the most that night was that, it would have been the perfect show, except for one thing. Woody wasn't there.

Watching Warren play that night in so many different contexts is always enjoyable and seeing Phil and Friends with a kickin' band made my heart smile, being an old Deadhead.

The (Black) Crowes rocked harder then ever. They got Audley Freed playing with them, who I knew from the Cry of Love days. I know Audley because Cry of Love were in Studio B at Muscle Shoals working on their record while we were in Studio A doing Everyday. We were all locked into the studio and there's nothing to do in Muscle Shoals except for walk up and down the river.

AT: And play music….

DS: Well, they have antique video games there. I think they had an original Galaga….[laughs] You get to know people when you're locked in the studio for a few weeks at a time. So it was great to see Audley. I saw a lot of people I hadn't seen in a while, some of the Blues Traveler camp.

I think it was the best concert I've ever attended, because I was part of it and I got to see it as a spectator. What a great night. Made Woody proud.

AT: You mentioned Warren's playing with a bunch of different people that night. He's been playing with Phil on a more permanent basis with the same line-up. A lot of musicians mention the fact that playing with Phil changes you as a player. How do you think that playing with Phil has changed Warren?

DS: From what I can tell, I know that Warren has a great respect for the music of the Grateful Dead. I think the first thing he said about it was, "Man, I never knew how complex those songs were. They sound so simple, but there's variation of chords. A basic blues shuffle can have thirty different chords in it!"

Obviously, when you're playing with Phil, you're going have your opinion and preconceived notions of what the role of the bass guitar in a band is and it's going to be completely turned upside down and shaken up. Musically, I think Warren has opened up a lot more. He's always been a great improviser, but the metaphor I'll draw, cause I'm famous for drawing ridiculous metaphors, is Warren was always the kind of player that could cut your throat musically in a second. Boom, just right there. Now, he's kind of learned to tickle your neck with the knife before he does it.

AT: Teasing you a little bit….

DS: Yeah, you know, watching the Allman Brothers at the Beacon in New York reminded me of the way those guys really build up the emotion, intensity and the musical friction. They're pushing it a lot farther and I think both Warren and Derek [Trucks] have a lot to do with that. Sort of the twin evil influences of Bruce Hampton and Phil Lesh having their way with those guys. Of course, Oteil's already been snapped by the Colonel and the Allman Brothers Band…

AT: You mentioned Colonel Bruce. You did the Stained Souls gig early this year down in Atlanta with him. When was the first time you met the Colonel?

DS: The first time I met Bruce….Well, the first time I met him, I was going to a tribute concert for a blues guitarist in Atlanta who had died. At that point in time, we were playing pretty often weekend stands at Little Five Points Pub, I'd say probably around '86. We had just finished or were in the process of recording Space Wrangler and Michael Rothchild, or Tinsley Ellis…one of those guys took me over to Little Five Points for the show and said that I had to meet Bruce. And I met him and it was sort of pleasantries and everything.

Then the next time I remember seeing him, we were playing a gig at Agnus Scott College. Bruce delivered the first copies of the Space Wrangler CDs to us. It was before the CD days and the album had been out for about six months on vinyl. The CDs got printed up and he delivered them to us. He walked in, took one look at me and said (imitating Bruce Hampton in a low, gruff voice) "Uh, Sagittarius". And I haven't been the same since.

The Stained Souls is a great thing and to tell you the truth, the first time I saw the Stained Souls was probably even before the first time I met Bruce. I was the doorman at the Uptown Lounge in Athens for a long time. They were playing and Oteil (Burbridge) wasn't with him and I don't even think (Jeff) Sipe was with him. It was like Ricky Keller on bass, maybe Mosier on banjo, definitely Charlie Williams on guitar. Basically, I had to tell people that the cover was only $2-3, and if they didn't like the music, tough shit, they weren't going to get their money back. At that time, the Colonel could definitely clear a room. Cause it's anything goes and it's a great thing.

The first one we did as Stained Soul was a benefit and it was fun and everybody really enjoyed it, so we did a couple of more. The one we did last week was a whole lot of fun. Personally, I was getting over a cold and I was tired, but I still had a great time. It's always a pleasure to play with Tinsley and Bruce. And it gives JB a chance to sort of relax and just be more of a singer when he wants to. He doesn't feel like the spotlight is all on him.

To tell you the truth, it's the best I ever heard Bruce play the guitar.

AT: Talk to me about Slang, your side project you're currently working on with Terminus Records.

DS: Yeah, Slang is a project between myself and Layng Martine III, who's a friend I've known from a long time ago from Nashville. I've watched him move all over the country, since the time he was at college at Boulder to graduating and sleeping on Bill Laswell's floor at Three Point Studios. He was the assistant engineer on all kinds of great projects, like the Material album and a lot of the really interesting constructed music that Bill Laswell was doing. Praxis, Ronald Shannon Jackson, just some really out, forward-thinking music. Layng had become very adept at all of it.

So, we got back together after Panic slowed down and we started not doing tours during the winter. He came down to visit me in Athens and I went and picked up a little Rowland eight track hard disc recorder. And we just made some loops, from records I had. Some drum loops, lifting breaks and things from records. I played some different kinds of bass and we called it the Potato Project. He was living in Seattle at the time and the idea was that, since we both had digital recorders, we would throw the tracks on ADAT. He would take a copy to Seattle with him and have some friends of his, like Pete Droge and others, come and cut some parts. All the while, as parts were layered on, the new parts were being selected and also created into loops. So it was a constant building of more and more layers and foundations.

Then the whole thing was cut up. It's very, very deconstructive…there's a term called "ilbient". Ill and ambient, and I don't know if it's applicable or not, they can call it whatever the hell they want. I went up to Seattle and brought some friends of mine from San Francisco and it was really just four or five songs. So we finished those up and I played them for Jeff Bransford and Jeff Duckworth, who were just starting Terminus Records at the time.

The next thing I know, Layng has moved to Long Island and has a studio in a barn out behind his house and Terminus is calling asking if we would consider making a full-length album. Saying that they'll make sure that we'd be able to afford to finish it and then they'd put it out. So we grabbed some East Coast musicians. We got some great people- the folks from Viperhouse, Jay Rodriguez from Groove Collective and DJ DXT on turntables. He was the guy with the first shot heard round the world on that Herbie Hancock song, "Rock It". He did the scratching on that and so we had him come down and put his little whammie on it and finished up the record.

Everyone's really positive about it, it comes out June 5. I've already played it for these guys (Warren, Chuck and Matt), thinking they'd be like, "What the hell is this?" But they're all really into it. I had wanted to get Warren to participate, since we did the final session right after the One for Woody thing. But he was already off starting up with Phil practice.

After they heard it, Chuck was all interested, asking how we did it and what the process was behind it. Warren was surprised how guitar-oriented some of the music was. When you hear it, you'll probably understand how it's all working. Rather than try and describe it, it's probably better just to listen to it.

AT: Is it something that can be taken on tour at all?

DS: No, it couldn't be done live. We're looking to do soundtracks, create moods, that sort of thing. Also, we're really just pushing the envelope as far is, is it dance music? Is it even art? What the hell is this?

Basically, it's just like the Brute record we do with Vic Chesnutt. It started as a fun lark and somebody took a shine to it and footed the bill to finish it and put it out. I think that when something is created with those things in mind, fun. People can pick up on that and they dig it.

AT: You mentioned Vic Chesnutt. Are you going to be doing any more projects…

DS: We actually cut a new Brute record. In the middle of the sessions for the new Panic record. We took three days off to get away from it, because you bury head into something and you start to sort of lose your objectivity. Plus, John Keane thought it would be a good idea. At the same time, Vic's one of those people that you kind of have to drag into the studio, kicking and screaming. So, it was one of those things were everyone was in town and everyone was into it. We cut like eleven or twelve Vic songs, ala Brute. I don't know what will come out, but the basic tracks are laid and it's something on the horizon.

AT: That's great.

DS: Yeah, we cut the tracks on like a Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday and then did a benefit show for mental health. Boy, that's when I learned that, just because you cut the tracks that week, doesn't mean you're going to remember them when you play later.

It's the same kind of thing that's happening here. We did three days of rehearsal up in New York and probably learned like fifty songs. Always, at some point on stage, there's going to be a moment like, "Oh my God, is this the song with the bridge that goes to F# or is this the song with the bridge that goes to D flat?" [laughs]

AT: I noticed last night you were kind of looking around…

DS: I always look at Chuck, you know. We kind of had a thing going. If he drops a brick, he's was going to give me a weird look and if I dropped a brick, I was supposed to give him a weird look. Then we decided that, if Chuck or I dropped a brick, we'd all look at Warren, including Matt. The buck has to stop somewhere. It's all in good fun, man, and it's only going to get better and better.

AT: How do you view your side projects compared to Panic? Not so much musically, but is it kind of a vacation, or is it something that replenishes you?

DS: Well, it's all kinds of things. As far as some of the records I've produced, that helps me to get my manipulative tendencies out, so I don't have to practice those on Panic…

AT: Like the Drive-by Truckers?

DS: That was an executive production, so I just kind of helped pay for it. I helped them with some early demos for the Southern rock opera they're going to do, but I got busy and haven't been able to hang around those guys too much since then.

I've worked with a band called Thumb and all-girl band from Athens called Jackpot City. That helps to get my manipulative, control-freak tendencies out of the way, so I don't have to practice them on Panic.

Things like Slang are just the kind of thing I did at home in my basement late at night, using SoundForge and Cakewalk and other acid pro tools things. Computer-based composition tools to paint abstract musical paintings and create feels. There's a piece on 'Til the Medicine Takes, between "Party at Your Mama's House" and "Dyin' Man," that was like the first piece of electronic music I ever did. I did it all by myself. It came on as a segue and we thought it would be cool, because "Dyin' Man" has got of a modern sound going on.

And then there are side projects like this, which are things that I musically need to challenge myself and also to help heal the loss of a friend. Every night that I'm up here on stage, I know that Woody's going, "You're doing the right thing. If this band had stopped, I would have been pissed. I love this music and I love Warren and Matt and I'm glad you're there…." I hope that's what he's saying, instead of "I'm going to get you, Schools…" [laughs]

AT: One other thing that's come up in recent months is the Dave Schools Scholarship at Collegiate, your old high school in Richmond. Talk to me about it.

DS: It freaked me out, because the guy who had the idea came up to me on our fall tour in '99 at the Charlottesville show. I was sort of like, isn't that the kind of thing that's supposed to happen after you die? Don't you name scholarships after somebody's dead uncle? My mom was there at the show and she said that it was a good idea and quite an honor, so she convinced me to read the guy's proposal. After I read it, I talked to the head of alumni giving at Collegiate. He was there while I was a student and I was there for thirteen years. He's a great guy and gave me a tour of the school. They have a really great music department. So, when I found out what the intent of it really was, which is to help someone who is musically or artistically talented who's in school there and, due to a tragedy or personal loss, can't afford to continuing going there, I felt it was a good thing. It also provides a chance for someone who displays music talent at an early age, who might not be able to afford to go there, to have that chance. It's really expensive, but it's terrific academically.

The basic core of it is to encourage the arts, music. I think that when you start kids on that, and encourage their imagination and their creativity, they learn to deal with things in a lot better way and have a real positive output for emotions, whether they're good or bad. Whether they're in to painting or dance or music, that's better than going out and creating random acts of senseless violence, or just becoming so introverted that they have no way to express themselves. You got to get it out and so I saw that it was a good thing and I got behind it. It's been very successful. There's a certain amount of money that needs to be raised to create a mutual fund, and the interest made on the fund is used for the scholarship. I think we've reached almost the halfway point in just the first year of giving, so a lot of people are behind it and that's encouraging. I would never want to lend my name to anything for profit or someone else's gain, materialistically. This is something that invests in the future and that's the kids. I know the opportunities I was given made me a much better person.

AT: How was your high school experience at Collegiate? I imagine you played in a few bands….

DS: I played in a few bands. You know, I was at a prep school for thirteen years and I was kind of in the smart kids' class. I sort of became an underachiever when I hit puberty. English was really like rolling off the log, but math, I just got lazy. I was your basic underachiever who did just enough to get by. I was really interested in music and books were kind of my best friends, besides my three buddies. Our main goal was to see as many Grateful Dead concerts as we could, without missing the maximum number of days in school you were allowed to miss. We'd go off to get tickets when they went on sale, so we had to sneak off school grounds. I remember rushing back one time to try and make my Ethics class of all things. I got pulled over by a cop right in front of the girl's portion of the school and I was taking an advanced world literature class, I think, with the girls that year. [laughs] You can imagine. Driving a 1969 Mustang with the license plate "DEAD 2" on it. So, I was your stereotypical late 70s, early 80s hippie kid. The Grateful Dead was the only thing that seemed to have the ideals, musically, that I was into, which was a lot of psychedelic music. Also, a lot of heavy, early heavy stuff, not what heavy metal became…

AT: Black Sabbath?

DS: Oh yeah, Sabbath. Zeppelin. Some Judas Priest…[laughs] Motorhead to a certain degree. A lot of the new wave bands really tickled my fancy too, in the late seventies: Talking Heads, Television, the Dead Boys. Even the Sex Pistols and Devo, stuff like that. I liked it all, because it was the intent that mattered. I can always tell intent.

I didn't ever have a date in high school. But I was in a band and it was great. We played covers and had a great time. We'd make a couple of hundred dollars in cash every so often. Played parties and got free beer, because the drinking age was eighteen back then. It was pretty fun.

AT: You talked about some of the bands you listened to as a kid. Who are some of the bass players that most influenced you?

DS: This is always surprising, but the biggest influences on bass were John Paul Jones and John Entwistle. Definitely John Entwistle. He made me want to play. Going to see "The Song Remains the Same" made me want to be in a band, but listening to John Entwistle play the bass, made me want to play the bass. Seeing Zeppelin was like, I'll play anything if I can be in a band that cool. But hearing John Entwistle, because I never got to see the Who until just last fall, made me want to play the bass. It made me realize that, God, the bass is an evocative, emotional and moving instrument.

Then later, obviously Phil Lesh and Berry Oakley were big. I remember my bass teacher in the seventh grade telling me not to listen to Phil Lesh, that he'd ruin me. [laughs]

AT: I guess he's just the opposite of what normal bass players do.

DS: Exactly. If you're a teacher, you know you have to start with fundamentals. And there's nothing fundamental about Phil Lesh. I didn't understand it at the time, but now I do understand why my teacher was doing it. He wanted me to start with "Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da" and some other simple Beatles tunes to show me the foundations of it all. Really, he just wanted me to play the piano.

AT: You mentioned a lot of different people. Who have been some of your favorite people to sit in with Panic over the years?

DS: Obviously, Warren, because he's so good. And Chuck. Stanton Moore from Galactic has always provided a really exciting drum-break thing. There's been a couple of times where I chorded the bass and he played it with drumsticks and that was pretty neat. We did that at JazzFest two years ago. He's always a pleasure. With the Colonel, something strange is always bound to happen.

Really, every night with Panic is a different experience. There's usually something different about every concert that sticks out, or that I can feel good about. That's what really keeps it fresh after fifteen years.

AT: You're heading back to JazzFest this year, which is a big gig. What are your thoughts on that?

DS: Hey, there's great food at JazzFest. [laughs] And everyone plays down there, there's all the music you can eat.

AT: One absence from this year's spring tour is the Myrtle Beach House of Blues show.

DS: Yeah, you know, it got too big. It's just too small for us, really. I understand why people love it and we enjoyed it too. It certainly didn't suck to spend three or four days at the beach or anything. It had gotten so bad, though, that we couldn't go out anymore. People were trolling up and down the beach looking for us, writing requests in letters that were eighteen feet high out across the beach. You could look out the balcony out of any high-rise and see what songs we hadn't played yet on that tour, written on the beach until the tide came in and obliterated it. It was always fun, but it's time to move on.

We're pretty much strictly playing arenas now and, with the new sound system and new lights, we're able to shrink the size of some of those rooms. So, it really sounds good and we're able to still make it feel intimate for the fans.

I know, as a fan, it's great to see something in a small place and be up close. And I'm sure that those occasions will still happen. They probably just won't be the kind of thing that you can buy tickets a month in advance .

And you know, everybody's got their solo projects. JB does his Hannah's Buddies thing and you never know what's going to happen at one of those. Dave Matthews could show up, all of us could show up, so that's really something else. We all have our side projects and we all have our side things that are sort of efforts to try and help people. It's good that we're all, as individuals, backing different things because that way we can put more help where help is needed. I don't think I ever want to get as involved as people like Bob Geldoff, or Peter Gabriel or Bono. Maybe you feel inclined to do so when you were the singer for the greatest band in the world or something. But really, it's the little local things that count. Not the big things that get written about in the paper: that stuff can help to raise awareness. But you can do something for people on the local level.

AT: One thing you mentioned that I wanted to ask you a little more about are the changes Panic has gone through over the past year. You've changed labels, changed sound and light equipment and crews. Comment a little about that.

DS: It's a natural evolution, you know. Change is always a good thing. It keeps it fresh for everybody. Some things that happened last year with Panic, within our crew, sound crew, light crew and everything, really made it necessary to whitewash the whole thing. It was a natural step and some things had happened, but everyone is a lot happier. It's a lot smoother of an operation. The whole point of living is to survive change.

AT: You guys recorded a demo to shop around to record labels before you landed with Sanctuary and it got out into the Panic fan community. One track that I found very interesting on the demo was "Tears of a Woman". Talk to me about it and how it came about.

DS: Funny you should mention that. I just got a phone call from John Keane, who's in the process of finishing the mix of the new record. He called me and asked if I would mind if he edited that demo track down and used it as a segue-piece, kind of like the Trance Man thing between "Dyin' Man" and "Party at Your Mama's House" and the mandolin thing Mikey did after "Surprise Valley." I said sure.

Basically, it evolved out of something where Todd and Sunny were doing this thing coming at the end of the drum solo. Todd had acquired a marimba and was sort of playing this modal piece on it. I juggled it around a couple of times and fell into some natural things that fit with what he was doing on the marimba. We did it a couple of times and by then the hyperanalysts had decided that it was a legitimate song and thus deserved a title. So, I remember it was at the Electric Factory in Philadelphia that this kid grabbed me through the fence and said, "What is that called?" And I had just broken up with my girlfriend, so the first thing that came to mind was "Tears of a Woman". That's basically the whole story.

We really haven't played it since we cut it down to the demo, but it'll be neat and work well within the context of some of the music on the new record. I don't know what songs it'll come between, but I'm sure it'll sound great.

AT: It's an interesting piece. At the New Orleans Halloween run in 1999, it seemed like you played a conscious variation on the theme each night.

DS: Right.

AT: It was a really cool thing to watch, coming out of drums every night it was something new, but right along that same thought process.

DS: Right. It's a constant evolution of theme and variation. Like this year at the Halloween run, I don't know if you noticed….

AT: The Sun theme.

DS: Yeah. The sun theme. "Here Comes the Sun", "Sunshine Go Away" and "Third Stone from the Sun." There was also another one I wanted to do if it would have been four nights. "Invisible Sun", the Police song.. I was asking the girl that works for us, Mary, what the more memorable melody was, "Sunshine Go Away" or "Invisible Sun". And she said "Sunshine Go Away", so….

AT: Going back to "Tears of a Woman," after the '99 Halloween run, that New Year's you did another variation on the theme and added chants to it. Is that something you worked with? Or was it spur of the moment?

DS: Well, it was spur of the moment. Things that happen like that are best left to try and not recapture them. If it's something that presents itself more than once and feels natural then obviously it's making itself known that, "I'm a song maybe. Work with me." And I think that's what Panic applies to everything. It's got to be organic. It has to feel right and not feel contrived. And not formulaic. With that chant thing, it worked that night and I didn't really ever try it again. So, it's only available on that show. But we did get multi-tracks and there were some hot numbers that night. So maybe "From the Vault" or something some year. Who knows.

AT: Is that a possibility with the new record label?

DS: Well, the label has given us our own imprint. It's only a three record deal. So it's the new record, the soundtrack to the Hanson movie which will be coming out before Christmas [editor's note: this a documentary about life on the road with Panic made by the Hanson brothers (Scrapple)], and then another studio record. It's a pretty short span of time and, if things go well, I can see a contract being negotiated to allow us to put out our live shows through their distribution. Everybody benefits and the fans are the ones who benefit the most.

The difference between something like that and a Dick's Picks thing is that most of the Dick's Picks are two tracks. This would be fifty-six, like Light Fuse Get Away, which requires a lot more effort to mix and put out. At the same time, there's a lot more opportunity to really make it sound good. So, who knows what the future holds, but we've captured as much as we can. We record every show, which isn't to say that every show is viable. There are technical glitches and shitty performances. Lopsided performances and things, you know. Putting Light Fuse Get Away together was really hard. And putting Another Joyous Occasion was hard because most of the things we did with the Dirty Dozen were off the cuff. A lot of the performances might have been something really great to witness and see happen, but isn't necessarily worthy of being set in stone. I think we captured some really great stuff on Another Joyous Occasion and we proved with that record that Widespread Panic could market their own records as well as any label had done for us previously, which is probably a big part of why Sanctuary became interested in us. That and seeing how the crowd responds.

AT: Back to last night to wrap it up. "Soulshine" and "Mule" are the two big moments for me from last night's show. What about you?

DS: "Mule" was great, especially with the "What is Hip?" thing in the middle of it. "Mule" is kind of their early signature song. If people have seen Gov't Mule and you ask them what they remember, they'll probably say "They played that song, 'Where's my mule, where's my forty acres.'" Powerhouse, man.

We all looked at each other during "Mule" and we realized that this is going to work and it's going to be fun and it's going to go over well. I mean, there's always some trepidation in approaching the first show of a tour with a new combo.

And "Soulshine." It was loud and our ears were worn out and it was a great version. I personally wiped out…

AT: Chuck played to death. He killed it!

DS: Chuck's intro was amazing. So yeah, I got down on my knees and put my ass up in the air as we were going into the dressing room for the encore and said, "Ok, everybody take a good, swift kick, 'cause I blew it." But I made it through "Thorazine Shuffle," and that was my big thing.

AT: Yeah, definitely. And you opened with it.

DS: That's a really hard one to play and I wanted to go out there and do Woody right on that one. Let the folks know that he was in my heart. That this tour is to help everyone heal and get over it. Forward and onward.