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Paul Languedoc Mixes it Up

by Jeff Waful

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Paul Languedoc has been Phish's soundman since 1986. In addition to mixing all of their live shows, he is also responsible for buliding Trey's guitars and a few of Mike's basses. I caught up with him before the 7-13-99 show at the Tweeter Center.

JW: You first met Trey in 1984 when you were working at Time Guitars in Burlington. What was your background leading up to that point?

PL: Well, I moved to Burlington in 1982 when I was just a year out of college. I went to Bates College and I was a philosophy major, believe it or not (laughs). I had always done lots of woodworking and stuff as a hobby up to that point, but before building guitars, I was rebuilding pianos. I did that off and on for four or five years while I was in school. It was like a part time summer job thing. For some reason or other, ever since I've been about eighteen, I seem to have been involved with musicians in some way or other.

JW: So your background was more woodworking and carpentry than sound engineering?

PL: I was always kind of a technical person. You know, I studied philosophy because I wanted to and I sort of felt like "I don't really need to study engineering. I get that already." You know? At least I feel like I have a pretty good mentality that way. A lot of times, I do wish I had studied electrical engineering or something like that.

JW: So were you mixing for other bands? Were you doing any work with other musicians at that time?

PL: No, not at all. I really started with Phish and as a matter of fact, the first time I mixed them, it was also the first time I ever heard them.

JW: Really?

PL: As far as I can remember.

JW: This was 1986?

PL: Yeah, something like that.

JW: So one day, Trey just walked into Time Guitars to have his guitar fixed? Is that how it went down?

PL: Well, he had been coming in and out for a few years and I actually was staying with him, because I was looking for an apartment and we had become friends. So, I was looking for an apartment and I was staying with him. He had a house with some other people and also another friend of mine was living with him. So, I happened to walk in on band practice one day and I think they were in the middle of this discussion about getting a soundman or a person to do sound for them exclusively because they were starting to play out at that time. So, I just kind of walked in on this conversation and they looked at me like, "Oh, let's get Paul to do it". It was just sort of a coincidental thing.

JW: I'm very curious about how the whole collaboration happened when you built Trey's guitar. Did you guys listen to a lot of music together? Did he give you examples on tape of other guitarists that he wanted to kind of emulate?

PL: No, nothing like that. We were just talking about it. He was playing a Time guitar at that time, and then that company had closed down. This was like 1987 and I was working for the band at that point, but I also had a job as a cabinet-maker. So, he came to me and was interested in getting something different. I made some drawings and we looked at the drawings. He had some ideas and I had some ideas, but I can't remember exactly who contributed what. It was his idea, I think, to make it a hollow body. He was interested in something different.

JW: It's definitely a pretty unique sound and he rarely tunes on stage. He's got this outrageous sustain. He only plays the one guitar, yet he can get many different tones. I was just curious if he came to you and said, "I'm gonna be bending a lot of notes, I don't want to have to re-tune." So many players at the club level re-tune between most of the songs. Was that a special design you came up with?

PL: I don't know if I was thinking about that in particular, but I had built some jazz guitars and hollow body guitars with tail pieces on them. I think that's the major contributing factor that it stays in tune, you know? It's the type of bridge it has and the type of tailpiece. So I just sort of preferred that. And, it was a hollow body guitar, so it seemed to make sense to do it that way. A typical electric guitar bridge I think puts the strings under a lot more tension, like a Fender style bridge where the strings come through the back and then over the bridge saddle. There are very high stress points on the strings at certain points with that type of design and that contributes to the thing going out of tune and strings breaking, especially when someone is really bending a lot of notes, you know? Where as in this case, with a tailpiece and a separate bridge, there's no point where the string is really under that incredibly high tension like that.

JW: How was your first gig with Phish? Were there a lot of problems? Do you have any memories of that night?

PL: The band played at Hunt's in Burlington and I had a friend there who was the house sound engineer. So, when this idea came that I might be interested in learning how to do this, I just kind of asked him if it was OK if I came down and helped him out. So, I did that for a few nights and helped him out with a few shows. The real first time I ran sound, he really sat over my shoulder. So, it was smooth in that sense I guess.

JW: The legendary road trip to Telluride in 1988. Were you travelling with a PA (public address system) at that point?

PL: Yeah, we were. We had a small PA system at that point. It was like a small club type PA system. That was very educational to me, because it was always breaking down, you know? Actually, some of my major training with PA at first came through Mike (Gordon). He had had high school bands and he actually owned a small PA system, like a Peavey or something like that. So, he knew more than I did for the first little while.

JW: I find that very interesting because at the level that Phish is at now, you're really renown in the business as having a pretty amazing crew and both you and Chris Kuroda are self-taught…

PL: Yeah, it's not that unusual in the business for bands to have their own sound engineer. I consider myself to be very interested in the PA system. There's lots and lots of stuff out there that I'm not up on, the latest, greatest stuff, but I really try to understand PA systems even if it's some kind of a festival gig or a one-off gig, I want to understand what's going on with it. So to me, that's very important. I think a lot of sound engineers are much more fixated on their mixing board and their console and they don't really care about the PA system, you know?

JW: As time went on and Phish started moving into theatres, you were travelling with your own larger-scale PA, which was kind of rare for bands at that level at the time. That must have given you quite an advantage, to play through the same system every night.

PL: Yeah, it was like old, used stuff that we bought, but it was good quality. It was breaking down a lot and it taught me how to figure out what pieces we needed and stuff, you know? So we just added things gradually, bit by bit. Yeah, it's always preferable to have something that's consistent.

JW: Could you compare and contrast some of the amphitheaters you're playing now? I mean, you must have favorites or ones that have really good acoustics and other venues that-

PL: That suck? (laughs)

JW: Yeah.

PL: Well, it's interesting that you said that , cause last night (7-12-99)….it's been a while since we've played this venue, which used to be Great Woods, now the Tweeter Center. The first few times we were here, I had a terrible time. I think that the PA system has improved to the point where I'm not worried about it being terrible. I thought last night was really good. Did you come to the show last night?

JW: I did. It sounded really good.

PL: Yeah, I mean it started off a little messy, but it cleaned up pretty good.

JW: I was down in Section 2, so I was wearing earplugs, just because I was pretty close to the speakers. So I didn't really get the best mix with the earplugs in, but my friends who were out on the lawn said it was really crisp. I've actually heard from a lot of friends that the back of the lawn has like the best sound in the house. I did think it sounded great down front though.

PL: Well great, that's good to hear.

JW: Are there any indoor venues that you really prefer over others?

PL: One that sticks out that I don't like is the Rosemont Horizon. It's like a big dome. That's where they did Quadrophenia. Terrible. Terrible room. Madison Square Garden sticks out as a really good place. I think it's a pretty good sounding room, but it just has a great energy about it too.

JW: So, as the years have gone on, Trey's tone has gone through a lot of changes. A couple of years ago, you built a new guitar for him. How did that come about? Did he come to you and say, "I want something new"?

PL: I think I decided to build a guitar. I don't know if he came to me or not. He needed a back-up guitar and I had the time to do it, so I decided to build this guitar. We had a few conversations about some changes, but there are really only two big changes. The bridge has a metal saddle on it. It's a fixed bridge. It doesn't have adjustable intonation on it. I think that helps with the tone. It doesn't have all those little metal parts in there to rattle around and stuff. The old bridge on the other guitar, his first guitar, has bone saddle pieces and this one has like a bronze metal actually set into the wooden, ebony bridge. So, that was one thing and then I thought changing the type of wood would give him….He talked about having a clearer sound and a more cutting sound. So, those were the two main things. This one is made out of Koa, where as the other one had a maple top on it.

JW: And does he still have that one? He never plays it live anymore does he?

PL: No, he only plays one guitar live (laughs). It's still around. It's essentially like a back-up guitar.

JW: Is that the one Neil Young played at Farm Aid?

PL: Yes, exactly.

JW: Now, is it difficult for someone like Neil Young, or anyone else, to pick up his guitar and play it? Cause I know there's a lot of feedback created.

PL: Well, Neil Young has played hollow body guitars and I don't think he would worry about it anyway, you know, the kind of guitar player he is. He would just go, "oh cool, a little feedback, cool."

JW: He did seem like he had a pretty easy time with it.

PL: It's funny. Neil Young, he doesn't want to know about the guitar. He's like, "just turn it all the way up. Turn the tone all the way up and take every knob on the amp and turn them to 10." So you just like run your hand over the knobs and turn everything to 10.

JW: So, did you have a conversation with Neil before that show?

PL: No, I didn't. I actually got a picture of that (show). Danny Clinch took a picture of that performance, this great picture of Trey and Neil and Mike. Then we did another gig with Neil Young and some other bands in San Francisco (The Bridge School Benefit) so I had this photo and I asked him to sign it for me. But, he's kind of one of those people I would be too nervous to approach, you know? I'm a little shy like that.

JW: One of the things I've always been curious about is the music that you play before and after the show and during the set break over the PA. Do you choose that music? Does the band come to you with certain music they want you to play on certain nights?

PL: Very rarely, almost never…. maybe twice in the last ten years.

JW: When was that?

PL: Oh I don't know.

JW: Just randomly?

PL: Yeah, occasionally they'll say, "hey, could you play this?" or something.

JW: Do you just choose the music based on the vibe of the night, kind of like the band would choose a set list?

PL: Well, I try to choose something that I think will be appropriate.

JW: I always find that interesting. Sometimes you'll throw in The Godfather theme and then last night (7-12-99) you put on Michael Jackson…

PL: Yeah I mean, a lot of times I'll just kind of flip through what I have and wait for something to jump out at me, you know?

JW: As far as taping the shows, I know you record on many different formats. You tape everything on DA-88 multi-tracks, on DAT and on analog. Can you talk a little bit about your set up and how you keep track of the all the tapes when you're on the road?

PL: Well, I make sure everything is labeled carefully. I spend at least a half-hour every day labeling tapes. We run forty tracks of multi-tracks and with two sets, that winds up being five tapes per set, so that's ten tapes. (note: each multi-track deck has eight tracks). Then, there's a DAT of each set, so that's two more and then two cassette tapes that are just audience tapes made with a stereo mic, probably pretty similar to what the tapers get.

JW: And does the band come to you a lot and ask for those tapes?

PL: They occasionally will ask for certain songs. Trey usually will say, "could I get this song from this set or that song from that set". Or sometimes he'll ask for something from a sound check. So I'll make compilation tapes for him.

JW: Do the master tapes go to Kevin Shapiro for the official archive or do you keep them?

PL: They end up in the archives. I have very few Phish tapes actually.

JW: What do you listen to in your spare time? Do you have a favorite band? Is Phish your favorite band?

PL: I couldn't possibly listen to Phish. You know, I think they're a good band, but I can't listen to that off-tour. It's not something that would relax me. I would be too critical. I listen to a lot of jazz. I'm not as up on music as people may think, to be honest. I like bluegrass and jazz, especially Miles Davis and some of the earlier bee-bop stuff. I like some of the old big band stuff. I also listen to some classical music occasionally.

JW: Were you familiar with a fan organization called "People for a Louder Mike"?

PL: I may have heard about that.

JW: Did that ever get back to you? I noticed that Mike's tone is a lot different now.

PL: The bass is probably one of the hardest things to get out into the mix, depending on the way he's playing and what he does with his settings. I don't want to make excuses, but in the past I feel like it sort of has been out of my control. I mean, I could turn him up, but it wouldn't help, you know? (laughs) I mean, I'm a big fan of bass. I love low end. PA systems now have improved to the point where you can hear that low information. It didn't used to be that you could hear anything below 80 Hz as a clear note. You would maybe just sort of hear it as a muddy thump kind of a thing.

JW: Or feel it in your chest…

PL: Yeah. Mike plays a lot of low notes. He's got a low B string on his bass and he really plays as lot of low notes, a lot more than most bass players. So, it's really hard to get that right. I mean, if he was a different kind of bass player and he was playing up the neck a lot more, I have a feeling people wouldn't be saying "we wanna hear Mike more."

JW: I noticed when the whole funk phase began, that a lot of people were raving about how loud Mike was in the mix. Was that a conscious decision that you made because they were playing a funkier style or was it because Mike was playing a different bass? I know he switched to the Modulus…

PL: Yeah, I think things have improved bit by bit. I think the PA system is better, particular the low frequency information. It seems to be working better. I love the bass. I'll turn it way up. Sometimes I wonder if it's too loud.

JW: I'm going to get to the new stage set up in just a moment, but with the old stage set up that you used for fifteen years, there used to be a turquoise coffee mug on Page's piano and it looked like Trey would speak into it. (With the reconfigured stage set up, it has now moved to Trey's rack system). Is there a microphone in it that he uses to speak to Page's in-ear monitor?

PL: Oh, I don't know if I can tell you that.

JW: OK.

PL: I think that maybe I have to keep that a secret.

JW: Is that a secret?

PL: Well, I can't answer everything.

JW: We'll keep everyone wondering…

PL: Yeah that's better.

JW: So why the new stage set up after all these years?

PL: Well, Trey did this little tour with Tony Markelis and Russ Lawton and that's where he set up on stage. I think that had a lot to do with it. It's always been a little funny, although I think kind of interesting, the way (the band used to set up). I mean, you never see a drummer set up way off stage like that. Band's usually set up drummers in the middle, usually in the back. I think the only reason that Phish ever did that was because when they were playing at Nectars, that was the only place to put the drums. There was no other way for them to set up, so that they could all fit on stage. So, that was how they started doing that years and years ago and they just kind of stuck with it.

JW: On a technical level, do you have to do anything different because of the new set up?

PL: Maybe a bit. I mean, Trey and Mike's vocal mics now pick up more drums and cymbals than they used to, but in general I think it's better than it used to be. It hasn't made that big a difference though.

JW: Is it a permanent change?

PL: Yeah, I think they like it. I've heard nothing but positive (feedback).

JW: Do you work with any digital software at all? I mean, for some of the venues that you mix at regularly, do you have a file that you save so that you don't have to start from scratch as far as the EQ?

PL: No, my consoles are still fully analog. We do have some things that are programmable like equalization and stuff like that and all of our EQs are digitally controlled and there's quite a few of them. When we're in arenas, there are so many different zones of speakers that there's something like fourteen different EQs. All of that stuff can be stored and recalled, but I used to do that, but it ended up not being helpful, so I don't really do that anymore. I don't think I would want to do that. I'm starting to get interested in digital consoles, but I don't think that being able to recall settings you did like a year ago would be helpful.

JW: Are you always constantly working during the show or do you ever take a second and say to yourself "wow, they're really going off right now"?

PL: Yeah.

JW: And your favorite song is still Dog Log?

PL: I wouldn't say that's my favorite song. (laughs) I don't know how that rumor started.

JW: I believe Trey said it from the stage, didn't he?

PL: Yeah. They're kidding me. The only reason that happened was because they used to go up on stage and mess around and I would ask them to play a song, you know, for sound check. I mean, this was a long time ago. I would just want them to play a song that had vocals so that I could get a mix and I just remember one time Trey going, "well, what do you want to hear?" And I said, "Oh I don't know, Dog Log." And from that point on, for some reason that became my favorite song. It's not my favorite song, but it's an OK song.

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Jeff Waful is a Jambands.com columnist and manages and books Uncle Sammy.