Dec/Jan Issue: Home | Editors | Features | Columns | Photos | Regional | New Groove Road Trip | Tour Journal | Venue | Levels | Ghosts | Homegrown | Inaudible | CDs | Charts

Dave Ellis Talks About Everything!
by Rob Turner

This has surely been a year that will stand out in Dave Ellis' life. Before 1998, Dave was most known for his work with the outstanding Charlie Hunter Trio, and more recently as a member of Bob Weir's Ratdog. However in 1998, as Dave continued work with Ratdog, he also toured with most of the remaining members of The Grateful Dead as a member of "The Other Ones," he took his wedding vows, and he recorded and released his second album, In The Long Run, which is available on Monarch Records. Orrin Keepnews produced Dave's new release, and they have spawned a real gem. Keepnews started as a jazz journalist some forty years ago, and went on to produce some of the most groundbreaking jazz artists of all time. He is not only a pillar in the world of Jazz, but also someone who has nurtured and influenced musicians of many genre. The fact that Keepnews was eager to work with Ellis is indicative of Dave's rapidly increasing status in the jazz community.

In The Long Run is a brilliant album that has a live feel even though it was recorded in the studio. Not only does Dave work with his own solid quartet, but he also performs a few tracks with some young jazz studs. For example Eric Reed, an outstanding pianist on the Impulse label, lent his considerable talent and two compositions to this release, and seven other top-notch jazz musicians also perform on In The Long Run. Dave's first CD, Raven, while successful, did not represent him as well as it could have, as it is more of a collection of songs, and Dave seems to be searching for his identity on it. On In The Long Run Dave works with two bands, yet the CD somehow maintains a consistent, not to mention mature and heartfelt, sound. His own compositions (and co-compositions with Jeff Chimenti) are refreshing, and he tackles the material of Cole Porter, Duke Ellington, Joe Henderson, Thelonious Monk, and the modern day legend to be, Peter Apfelbaum with a vengeance. As a jazz fan, I'm excited about Dave's future as a frontman.

As a Deadhead, I'm thankful for his fresh take on the material that so many of us cherish dearly. Thanks to Dennis McNally and Dean Budnick, I was set up to interview Dave after Ratdog's recent Boston Orpheum show. Ratdog, having proven that they can deliver ferocious versions of the Grateful Dead's material, seems poised to move into more original material and a freer approach to jamming. 1999 could be a very exciting year for this constantly improving band. They were one show short of completing an extensive, cross-country tour on this night. Dave was in good spirits, but he seemed very tired. He was very generous with his time nonetheless, and we huddled in a corner room in the bowels of the same Orpheum that I had seen my first Bob Weir show (with the Midnites) close to seventeen years ago.

Rob: First of all, I'd like to congratulate you on your new album.

Dave: Thank you very much!

Rob: I enjoy it very much, all the way through _

Dave: Really!? You've listened to it?

Rob: Oh yeah, I've listened to it, I find it very interesting that you're working essentially with two bands, yet making it sound like one cohesive unit. How did you pull that off, do you just trust your ears?

Dave: I had a lot of lunches with Orrin Keepnews, talking about ideas, trying to weed things out, solidify what the idea is, what the title and concept will be. Is it gonna be big band, is it gunna be a quartet record, which this mostly is? Are we going to have any guest artists? Are we gonna use your band or get a band full of ringers, you know, Orrin had some ideas and I had some ideas and we just worked, as friends, to get it done. This record was recorded after the Ratdog spring tour of '98, and then I got married in May...

Rob: Congratulations!

Dave: Thank you. And then I went on tour with The Other Ones this year. Actually we recorded the session with the LA guys who Orrin knew before The Other Ones tour. Eric Reed and-

Rob: Rob Hurst

Dave: Yeah, and Tootie Heath man (author's note - Dave reflectively rolls his eyes in amazement here, obviously this was a killer session) sigh Shit! (laughs) And then I went on tour for the summer with The Other Ones, so it's just been an intense year. This record is something I'm very proud of, I can't believe we got it done, and I really became friends with Orrin Keepnews and met some extraordinary musicians who were very kind to help me sight unseen, they had not heard me play. They had only heard of me. And Bob Hurst, Tootie Heath, and Eric Reed all just took Orrin Keepnews' word for it. They said "OK if you got a guy you think can play, then...

Rob: Bring 'em on

Dave: we'll play with him," yeah! And they did, and Monarch Records is not a big label. It wasn't like big dollars. It was, you know, just because Orrin wants to get his feet wet again. He's been doing mostly reissues for the last bunch of years. He had sold his portion of Fantasy records in 1972, which is in Berkeley, California, John Fogerty and all those folks came out of that building in Berkeley, and Orrin's been living in the Bay Area ever since. He had been doing mostly reissues, he's 75, I guess. But he's still got his production job, so this is the second or third record that he's done from scratch recently. You know, it's not a reissue, it's really produced, so I was just sort of following along if you know what I mean. He's such a legendary man and producer, and he's been around some of the greats, just that he shows some interest in me was really flattering.

Rob: Tell me more about the significance of Orrin, and why it's a great source of pride for you to have worked with him?

Dave: Orrin Keepnews has been part of many different record companies. He's produced and worked with artists like Thelonious Monk and John Coltrane He actually never produced, but knew and worked with Sonny Rollins. He's probably most remembered for (producing) Cannonball Adderly's Mercy, Mercy, Mercy record which was probably the first hit jazz record, it went gold which is, I think that's 500,000 copies sold, I'm not quite sure about that. He was part of Riverside records as well as Fantasy records. He signed and produced a lot of the very significant jazz artists from the beginning back in New York in the fifties. So, when I'm working with Orrin I'm working with a guy who has facilitated the recordings for all of the guys who I grew up worshipping, some of whom were dead before I was even born. Orrin is basically a living legend, so to be working with him and have him be all psyched and choose to be doing new projects and stuff is just spectacular. So I kind of went along for the ride, in a way. You know, I went to Berkeley College of Music and got a production engineering degree, I've got all of my knob-twisting skills together. And I had a whole lot of ideas about how I wanted this record to go. This is a quartet record, basically, that's done in the studio with no isolation, really, very little. No overdubs. And it's just how they used to do it in the old days, you know, how Orrin wanted it to get done. So, it was a little nerve-wracking on my part, but I'm really, really proud of the accomplishment.

Rob: It's good to see you are writing too, and you're writing with Jeff (Chimenti, keyboardist for Ratdog and Dave's Quartet) as well?

Dave: Uh-huh, yeah. He lives an exit down from me off the freeway over in Oakland. So we spend a lot of time together and I get him over to my little home studio and I say "Hey, gimme some chords for this or that man and come on let's get this goin' or that..." I basically found Jeff when I left the Charlie Hunter Trio I called around looking for people to play with, who didn't play guitar (laughs). Do you know who Charlie Hunter is??

Rob: Oh yeah, of course! I may ask you about him later.

Dave: So, I was looking for a keyboardist, and Jeff was the guy recommended to me by everyone in the Bay Area, which I will admit was a shallow pool, but Jeff was the cream of the crop. Hard to get. And I just called him out of the blue over a year ago, '96 or so, after Raven came out, my first record. I was looking for people to play with. I just called Jeff and it was like we had been long lost friends or something, just instantly. you know, ah...chillin' (laughs). So, it's only natural that some of these songs would be co-compositions, 'cause he's my co-partner in the Quartet and in Ratdog, and also an extraordinary talent due to release a CD himself pretty soon...

Rob: As a frontman

Dave: Yeah, a lot of people don't think that San Francisco produces legitimate jazz musicians, but I know for a fact that Jeff Chimenti is going to be recognized as a piano talent nationally. It's going to take some time but, wait til you hear him on this - well you've already heard him on the record.

Rob: Yeah, he has a nice touch!

Dave: He's sick man. Jeff and I and Jay too are really learning from Bob and Rob about this rock stuff, even Mark (Karan, Other Ones and Ratdog guitarist) too. These boys do that, and we do something else and bring it together here with Ratdog. That's what that is. So, I'm glad to hear you say now Ratdog belongs in that jam band category because it God damn well better, our hearts are in every single piece of every tape out there, all of the music. I actually can't speak from experience because I haven't listened to too much Phish, and I haven't listened to too much Widespread Panic, although they played right before us in up in Portland, Maine just a few days ago. Which was nice, I got to check them out. They were killer! Yeah (pause) they were good. Yeah.

Rob: You guys all went?

Dave: Yeah! We went and checked it out, man. I gotta say I really, really enjoyed it, you know. But I know that those, the fact that you didn't originally consider us one of those bands is strange to me 'cause this is such a good band, you better watch out now, that's all! (laughs).

(author's note: Dave and I had a conversation before the interview where I referred to Ratdog as "recently" being at the forefront of the culture of the folks that this web site reaches. I must have muddled my words, as Dave thought I was implying that until recently Ratdog would not even fall into that category. Since our time with Dave was limited, I didn't want to waste any time explaining what I had related poorly. The simple fact is that since Ratdog has become Weir's chief band, it has had more time to develop from a strong Grateful Dead side band into an entity of its own.)

Rob: No, no I _

Dave: But no, but I know what people are thinkin' ya know. They're like "ahh Ratdog, I don't know, I don't know, there's Bobby and ahh I don't know." Now it's just gonna be really, very strong. This last tour we've just done has really solidified stuff, and we're gonna get ready to release this record and that's gunna solidify the group as a band, like you said, as a unit.

Rob: Well, I was in Northampton last Thursday, and I liked, for example coming out of West LA Fadeaway, the relaxed approach to jamming, and the lack of concern for where it was going that maybe wasn't as prevalent in Ratdog as recently as last spring. I find that really, really refreshing, and you must even more so.

Dave: Yeah, (smiling) in fact we've been working on that.

Rob: Was that a new song in the beginning of "Corinna." You sort of started the body of the song, then you moved away, and you were definitely doing something pre-written, and it wasn't "Corinna."

Dave: Yes, it's brand new.

Rob: Now how long have you been toying with that?

Dave: When Bob and I were out this summer on tour with The Other Ones, Jay and Jeff and Rob were at home working in the studio in Bob's house, and that was one of the tunes that they came up with. They were keepin' busy at the insistence of Bob. And they fuckin' kicked ass and got some work done. This tune is great, we haven't had enough time to do anything but structure it as a musical piece, and I've been sort of taking the lead and the chorus on the saxophone now for the time being while we're working on it. And it's great that you notice it because it is a tune unto itself, and I really think it's a great thing.

Rob: It has some interesting changes in there.

Dave: It does! This is a tune that I think that people who are heads-up, like yourself, watching Ratdog right now, will hear on this record that's going to come up and know that this is a song that started right here, Winter of 1998. You'll hear that on our record, as well as about 8 or 9 other songs like that that we've been working on as skeletons that we haven't had time to actually develop, but now we've got a unit, like you said. And now we have our deadline, and we'll be enforcing it (laughs).

Rob: You just played Yoshi's right?

Dave: I did, yeah!

Rob: What band did you have for that?

Dave: I had the quartet that I've been playing with, including Jeff Chimenti and Deszon Claiborne on drums and Pete Barshay. And they're also guys that, like Jeff, I sort of got to know when I left the Charlie Hunter Trio, and I went back and tried to find a group to play with. I played with any number of people in the Bay Area, and combinations of people in the making of my first record. I was trying to play gigs around the area, and survive really, because Charlie Hunter Trio was a great gig for the area. San Francisco is a very fertile place as a jazz scene, especially '92, '93 and '94. '95 kind of tapered off a little bit, but it's very fruitful, but it's still hard to make money as a jazz saxophonist it's a night job only (laughs). At the same time I had been a leader for a long time, I mean ever since high school. Then I was a member of The Charlie Hunter Trio with Jay Lane. That was what my focus was about in '96 when I started doing my own thing, it took me a while to get my feet under me and find the players that I really enjoyed. It showed on the first record in the sense that it was a little bit splayed. It was a good effort but I maybe bit off a little bit more than I could chew but I really actually liked the record, this thing now is rawer, more slimmed down (Jeff Chimenti walks in) and this is Jeff Chimenti, who you need to talk to right now, is spectacular, as you know. This is Rob.

Jeff Chimenti walks in the room as he is answering this question.

Jeff: Hi Rob.

Rob: Nice to meet you, I like your compositions on here (holding In The Long Run).

Jeff: Oh, cool.

Dave: We've been at it for hours, he's got tape deluxe!!

Jeff: So, how are you guys doin'?

Dave: (pointing to me) He'll ask the questions, I'm sorry (laughter). No, wait a minute one question for Jeff, for the record. You got one for Jeff?

Rob: Is that all right with you?

Jeff: Sure.

Rob: How do you feel about gradually incorporating material that you've written into Ratdog, and how have you been influenced by the Ratdog musicians in writing that material

Jeff: I see it as a basic sketch, as far as like what I might interpret how Bob feels about something or how he might look at something, but it's not just me, I mean we're all, I think, doin' it together, although it might start from one person or another. It's been a great thing for me, I've learned quite a bit since I've joined this band, I just really never imagined it would be as much fun as it is. As far as new material, I guess I just try to keep in mind the sound of what's going on, and try to say "Hey, I think I understand maybe what's happening over here," and I just try to bring it out, I don't know how to explain it.

Rob: You seemed to work yourself in gradually really well, you were real low-key that first tour.

Jeff: Well, I was just trying to find the space, ya know, you have to kind of role play and kind of be a support and find little pockets to get your voice in there, hopefully, but just try and be as supportive as possible, 'cause to me if the groove's happenin' then that's it, you know, and you go from there.

Rob: You're getting more and more solos, and playing more aggressively with Ratdog.

Jeff: We're trying, it takes time. It's building and everybody's trying to feel each other out, and I think we're really starting to learn each other now. For me it's been about a year and a half and I'm just finally starting to understand what's happening.

Rob: What jazz bands did you play in before you came onboard with Ratdog?

Jeff: Wow (laughs)

Dave: Everything in the Bay area. He was absolutely the first call piano player for every single gig. If there was anyone who came through the Bay area, or anyone who was playing regularly in the Bay area, Jeff played with 'em. Human Flavor, Alphabet Soup...whoooo shoot! I don't even know where to start! That's where I started 'cause I'm from the South of Market scene. Man, who else Jeff? Everybody at Pearl's , everybody at Pender's club when he was there, man ah...Storyville...everybody, man everybody. Jeff's the man.

Rob: Did you guys know Kenny Kirkland? (author note: Kenny, who had passed away days before this interview, was an amazing jazz pianist who worked with many artist, performing incredible music, particularly with Branford Marsalis)

Jeff: Yeah, I didn't actually know him, but I was very appreciative of him and I admired what he did.

Dave: He's a big influence on us!

Jeff: I heard early on today that he had passed away.

Rob: He was an influence you say?

Jeff: Oh yeah, he was a brilliant player, he's an influence on everybody!

Rob: (To Dave) You were 10 when you started playing, (to Jeff) How old were you when you first started playing?

Jeff: My mother's got pictures of me back to eighteen months on the piano, but actually consciously probably started at about 4. I started by ear. We had a piano at our house and it was just there and I was just started playing. Then we'd go to church and I would start mimicking _

Dave: Here's what I know, his Mom , Mary, told me that he was listening to the songs while he was sitting in church, and then he would go home and start playing them, you're talking about like four years old though, and he goes home and starts playing them, his parents were like "Whoa, we gotta keyboard player here!" So, it was kind of, ah perhaps delivered before consciousness.

Rob: So who put the saxophone in your hands?

Dave: Same, I just fell in love with the instrument, ah about fourth grade, fifth grade. I had actually played in third grade I just found out. My folks rented me a horn and I didn't play it. My Dad said if you're not gunna play it, I'm not gonna pay for it and he took it back. And about fifth grade I picked it back up again. The Berkeley High Jazz Band came to my fifth grade class.

Rob: They came into your class?!

Dave: Yeah, in my fifth grade class. They did a concert., and horns were blaring, and the sax was bad, and all those high school seniors and people I looked up to, who actually, most of 'em were gettin' gigs with the Ray Charles Band. They were professional musicians, thanks to the system at Berkeley. I knew then exactly what I was gunna do.

Rob: And you were the first chair, weren't you, in the (Berkeley High) Jazz Orchestra?

Dave: Yes I did, or was.

Rob: Can you tell us about your association with Phil Lesh when you were in the (Berkeley High Jazz) Orchestra?

Dave: Oh, sure. In 1985 I was a senior in high school, actually Josh Redman was the second tenor in the Berkeley High School Jazz Band.

Rob: Wow! (laughter)

(author's note - Josh Redman is considered by many to be one of the best young sax players around, a young lion if you will.)

Dave: Yeah, and we had been denied the championship trophy of big bands in the annual Monterey high school jazz band competition. We went to a lot of festivals where you compete against other bands, but this was kind of the pinnacle. In my sophomore and junior years we lost this festival, we won a few others but never won this one, which is kind of THE trophy festival. In 1985 when I was a senior and co-directed the group, ah actually it's a longer story than that. Phil Hardiman, who was the director of the Berkeley school's music program from about1970 through 1981, and he's the reason that Benny Green, Josh Redman, Craig Handy, myself, and all people that came out of Berkeley High, he sort of invented this system and made us all jazz musicians. He just passed away this year actually, unfortunately, of cancer. Kind of early. But he's responsible for all of this. So, anyway in '85 we had one last chance to win this trophy, sort of like the homecoming of my senior year football, or something like that. Since we were thirty times better than the football team anyway, at Berkeley High School, and had way more tradition. Anyway, the band that included Benny Green, Craig Handy, Dan Molinsky and all of these people that I grew up watching won this festival a few times in a row in 1978, '79, '80...

Rob: Peter Apfelbaum.

Dave: Peter Apfelbaum, who wrote one of the tunes I have on my record, he was part of that generation of guys. Like four or five years older than myself. And these are the guys I grew up watching, these guys are all...Craig Handy...I mean these guys are all national jazz names, they were all seniors at the same time at one high school, and I was watching them, and so was Josh Redman. So, that's kind of why this all went nuts you know. Because it was all these people from one area. The band, by winning the California High School Jazz Competition in 1985, got an opportunity to go to Japan the following year. The Monterey Jazz Festival provided the opportunity, the flights, the gigs, everything. But the band had to get the money together through bake sales, through fund raising, through anything, anyway they could. And every way they could, because it costs a lot of money to get eighteen guys, and Peter Apfelbaum, who wound up going with them, as sort of a guest artist, over there. Peter Apfelbaum actually went in my stead, because I graduated. And I was kind of ineligible to go, because the band from 1986 was the band that went to Japan. So, this is a trip that I actually missed, but Phil Lesh, when asked, provided, I think ten thousand dollars to help the band get to Japan. This was before I really knew The Grateful Dead, we knew that Phil Lesh was a member of The Grateful Dead, and that he went to Berkeley High, and that he was up for supporting this cause. In fact Phil Lesh and Jill Lesh, through the Unbroken Chain Foundation, also just did the same thing, really for me and through me for the Young Musicians program in Cal, and donated ten thousand dollars to them this year after we did the Phil and Friends gig at The Fillmore. It's an amazing circle of events that he would do that in 1986, and then in 1998 it would come around that I was playing, and that the Unbroken Chain Foundation was in a position to give some money and that I had a great cause. The Young Musicians program is a program at Cal that's a summer program, sort of for underprivileged kids, and Josh Redman also went there, and a bunch of musicians that we still know, like Kito Gamble, a bunch of people. It's funny what a small world it really is. I've become friends with Phil since the summer tour this year and the gigs that we've done. Phil was at that gig at Yoshi's, and he brought his kids, Graham and Brian, and his wife down there. They owe me some money (laughter) so, ah, you guys you gotta cough up the fifty cents you owe me, so make sure you get that to me (more laughter). Anyway man, so, it's turned into a very nice kind of, circle of music.

Rob: That's somethin' else.

Dave: Weird, isn't it?

Rob: It's great that Phil is conscious of these things, and that the Unbroken Chain Foundation keeps on doing these positive things.

Dave: Hey man, not just conscious, you know, actively seeking out ways to help, big time! Bob is too through the National Resource Defense Council, Rainforest Action Network, ah what else?

Rob: He's done a lot of work preventing clearcutting and urging cities to provide more bike paths for people.

Dave: A lot of different things. Ratdog's been doing benefits, actually we just did a recording, Ratdog, with Charlie Musselwhite which will come out soon.

Rob: Really, some hot harmonica?!?!

Dave: Gosh yeah, hey it's great, yeah.

Rob: A full release or just a few songs?

Dave: "Take Me To The River," and ah "Rooster" I think, yeah "Red Rooster," was that it? Or, something like that, a couple of tunes, so nice Ratdog on CD, and more to look forward to for sure!

The rigors of the tour got the best of Dave, so the interview was cut a bit short. He seemed to be genuinely interested in sitting down again sometime after the New Year. Hopefully, I can have it arranged, and hopefully Dave and Andy will be interested in presenting the second interview here as well. This would allow me time to discuss Dave's days with Charlie Hunter, and his previous and forthcoming work with The Other Ones. If you're interested in purchasing a copy of In The Long Run, click here.

---

Rob Turner has been seeking all that still unsung since he was 14. He is a music fanatic.

---