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The Mind of Billy Martin

While researching for the profile piece I did on Medeski Martin and Wood for Experience Hendrix Magazine (Vol. 2 issue #5) I conducted phone interviews with each of the band's members as well as with Bob Moses. This is the unedited transcription of my interview with Billy Martin. Billy Martin's Percussion Duets CD- recorded with Calvin Weston (of Lounge Lizards fame)- is available by mail order: $15 to Amulet, PO Box 402049, Brooklyn, NY 11240; www.amuletrecords.com / credit card orders through INDIRECTO@MMW.NET or call (212) 479-7342 www.mmw.net also available at Medeski Martin and Wood live performances.- Jack Chester

Back Issue of Experience Hendrix Magazine are available at the Experience Hendrix website @www.jimi-hendrix.com/magazine

Jack Chester is also a contributing writer for The Rocket- the premier music and entertainment magazine of the Pacific Northwest which is online @ www.musicuniverse.com

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Jack Chester: Early on you dabbled in quite a few musical genres. Was jazz always your first love or was it something you grew into?

Billy Martin: Well, I don't know. It's hard to know. My awareness of music, when I was younger, wasn't as broad as it is now. But I've always been attracted to different jazz styles. Yeah, but I kind of grew up playing a little more rock 'n' roll.

JC: That is the way that most kids start out; especially drummers.

BM: Yeah, I mean, well especially for my generation, in the 70's and 80's that was just what was happening as well as hip-hop music.... My dad was a classical musician so I was also checking out amazing orchestral stuff at the New York City Ballet; Stravinsky, Tchaikovsky, Gershwin, and that kind of stuff. And my mom was a dance teacher and she was choreographing dance stuff to Duke Ellington and Stevie Wonder and also some really schmaltzy stuff as well; Broadway stuff.

JC: So you were pretty well surrounded by all forms of music relatively early on?

BM: Yeah, but as far as real improvised stuff on the higher creative level, it took a while. It wasn't until I graduated from high school that I realized how, as an individual artist, how creative you can be with the individual self. I didn't realize that until I graduated and started hanging out in New York City and when I met Bob Moses and I played Brazillian music and African stuff in the downtown scene in New York.

JC: When and how did you get into conducting?

BM: Conducting? How did you hear about that?

JC: I got that out of your bio and it was the first I had heard of it.

BM: Well, in high school I was in the band, the last year I was in concert band. And I was into orchestral music at the time as well as playing jazz and big band stuff. And I ended up conducting Leonard Berstein's Candide at one of the concerts. And after that, when I started taking lesson when I graduated from high school, I went to Juliard- the extension division of the Manhattan School of Music- and I studied with Vincent LaSalva who was the conducting teacher at Juliard. I think the reason why I wanted to get into that was because I think it helped me a lot with divisions of rhythms and learning more about score reading because I'm into percussion ensemble stuff. So it was just a way for me to learn how it's done so when I do work with an ensemble and I need to be a leader I can use some of that along with my language of leading a group. But it's not that I'll be conducting orchestras or anything like that.

JC: Speaking of compositions, tell me a little bit about your Variations On Bolero.

BM: [Laughs] Wow, I can't believe...

JC: If you don't mind me going that far back.

BM: No, I don't mind at all. That was one of my very first percussion ensembles; legitimate percussion ensembles.

JC: That's exactly why I'm curious about it.

BM: I had a teacher, Paul Price, who taught at the Manhattan School of Music. And he was my private teacher; I was learning to play Timpany and some mallet keyboard stuff and he was someone who was kind of introducing me to the world of symphonic percussion as well as contemporary classical ensemble stuff. So when I told him I was working on a percussion ensemble, he encouraged me to finish it and that he would check it out and maybe perform it at one schools; he also taugh at Keane College in New Jersey and they had a percussion ensemble there. He actually had the students perform my piece. I think I was just out of high school, or something. And I was blown away. He really encouraged me to keep doing that stuff.So, that was that; it was a very simple sort of thing. It was something almost a naive kind of approach to writing, but it was the begining of being into writing for percussion and I'm very much getting into it now again. Of course, I've learned a lot. I've had a lot more experiences and I'm a lot more creative with it. But that was really my first... That blew my mind. Because Paul Price, at the time, he was quite a figure. I mean, John Cage gave him all of his percussion stuff... Actually, I just read this, I didn't even know he was connected with Cage.

JC: When did you find that out?

BM: I read it in this Percussive Notes Magazine which is a percussion art society magazine that I just subscribed to and there was an article about Cage. And they talked about his history and at one point he was teaching in Seattle and then he move to Chicago and then moved to New York and I guess Paul Price was at one of those places and he left all his percussion collection with Paul Price.

JC: What was it like when you heard your own piece performed for the first time?

BM: Well, it was sobering. It was exciting. And I think what I learned was that, right off the bat, that I needed to... It's hard to explain. At the time I was just overwhelmed with the fact that anybody would even play my music. And the fact that someone was conducting it and then these other people were playing it. It was like being interpreted by a cunductor and then being performed by these strangers and it sounded alright. I thought they did a good job. And I felt like it was a little boring.

JC: Really?

BM: Well, in some respectes.

JC: Is that more from looking back or was that your feeling at the time?

BM: No, I was excited at the time. I think maybe looking back at it, just saying to myself, compositionally, it was based on the Bolero rythm- based on Ravel's Bolero- so it kind of did the same thing; except that I had some cross patterns going and some polyrythmic things and cannons and things like that. But really it was an exercise in technical writing so it was less creative than it could have been, but really I was only eighteen years old. And it was the first time I had ever written for percussion.

JC: Tell me a little bit about Drummers' Collective and how that influenced your writing and your work.

BM: I learned about Drummers' Collective through my ignorance toward Brazillian music and Samba; I didn't know what that was. And I was playing with some bands that were playing- we were sight reading charts and lead sheets- kind of like a jazz ensemble does. And one of the charts said to play a samba beat. And I didn't know what it was. I didn't know the difference between Samba and Mambo; I thought they were all the same. And I think that's what a lot of American drummers grow up learning- especially that kind of club date seen. There's a Latin kind of generic beat that you play and they all sort of get thrown in there. So I was kind of embarassed and humiliated, in a way, that I couldn't do it. So soon after that, I was looking through the Village Voice and I saw Samba classes. And I said, "Well, this has got to show me something about Samba." And it said, "Drummers' Collective." So I figured that it was perfect, it was a drummers' thing and figured that this has got to be it. And by God, it was. At the time, Drummers' Collective was on 42nd street and took the bus in from New Jersey and I took the elevator up. And I started hearing the music- percussion in the distance- kind of like a train or something. It was this really grooving coloristic groove going on and it sounded very cool and exciting. The elevator opened up and I walked down the corridor and I walked into this room of a circle of people playing all kinds of beautiful percussion instruments. And it was really grooving and there were lots of people- old and young- and it was a really cool scene. And that changed my life right there; that was it. And that was at Drummers' Collective. So, from that point on I was so into studying Brazillian percussion that I studied the class, I took drum lessons in Brazillian percussion and then I started taking lessons from other drum teachers there. The teacher at the time, who was teaching Brazillian, was Manuel Montiero who was really like my mentor/best friend for like two years. We formed a band together and I ended up being a substitue teacher for him. And then I studied with Frankie Malabe and Ken Denard and Michael Carvin and Bob Moses used to come by. And all these people used to come by the Samba class; Joco Pastorius and Mike Gibbs, Mike Stern and all these people would come by and check it out. And through that scene I kind of met those people and checked them out and played with them a little bit. Moses was always putting together lots of percussion oriented music and using a lot of these musicians at the time. And sometimes there would rehearsals there at Drummers' Collective. So basically I was there for like three or four years intensly studying with three teachers a week and taking ensemble classes and practicing there.

JC: Would you say that was your first experience that really forced you to grow as a musician?

BM: It was basically the turning point for me. It showed me how many paths opened up for me. It pointed me in many different directions and gave me options when I didn't have them before. The only options I had before were like my parents telling me, "Well, play a Broadway show or be a classical musician and be in orchestras." Either play in a pit orchestra on Broadway or play at the Philharmonic. Or do studio- television commercials- ya know, all legitimate stuff. There was no room for like creative at all- they didn't really see it that way- although they appreciated it. And so I was introducing them Moses and Brazillian music and they loved it. They were just as excited about it as I was.

JC: So your parents were relatively supportive of the new styles your were learning and were into?

BM: Yeah, they were but they didn't see any kind of financial security in it [laughs].

JC: Well, you seem to be doing o.k. now.

BM: Yeah.

JC: So I'm sure they're happy with it now.

BM: Yeah, they are. They're amazed.

JC: Tell me a little bit about Bob Moses and how he first got you together with John Medeski and Chris Wood.

BM: Well, Bob Moses is like my musical father. And after a while we weren't in contact that much because he moved to Boston and I moved to Brooklyn and I was on the road with Chuck Mangione and I would do gigs with him whenever I was home. So about once a month I would talk to him or play with him. He was doing gigs- he did a tour in Israel with John and Chris and this saxophone player.... They went to Israel and they did some concerts there. And so when he came back from that he told me about these students he had; Medeski- how talented this guy was. So I'd hear stories about Medeski now and the- Moses would talk about him. So eventually I got to meet John. I was playing with Moses at Johnny D's in boston and I got on the drum set- Moses always gets off the drum set for one tune and dances in the audience- so I got on the drum set and we played like a funk tune. So that was the end of that first set. And then John Medeski came back- he was like this big bearded guy- he looked like a logger or something. He was like, "Hey, I'm John Medeski. I saw you and your drumming is so happening." I said, "Hey, well I heard about you and that your an amazing player. I'd like to get together with you some time." And he said, "I'm moving to Brooklyn, when I get there I'll give you a call." And I said, "Great, I'll pick you up and we'll play." Soon after that he gave me a call, I picked him up in my van- he had his Korg organ with him at the time which is just like a suitcase organ- and we just played duets for a couple of hours. We did everything, vocal shit, I was picking up every percussion instrument. It was really uninhibitted. And it felt really good. I knew this cat could go anywhere. We could go anywhere together, musically. So, he was doing gigs at the Village Gate and the story goes on from there. We started playing with Chris and we started doing our own gigs and we started touring.

JC: When was it that Chris came into the picture? How long were you and John playing together before you played as a trio?

BM: It was just that one time that John and I played duets; just that one time. And after that Chris moved down to New York to do some gigs with John at the Village Gate. At the time they didn't have drummers play because of some cabaret law. So they were doing duets together and John was doing duets with Reggie Workman at the time and Chris would come down and take the bass chair one day a week. And I don't know how long that went on, but eventually they started using drummers and they asked me to come down and play one night. And I think we had gotten together one time before that. They came over to my loft in Brooklyn and we jammed for a couple of hours and I recorded it. Some of it is music from Notes From The Underground.

JC: Really?

BM: "Uncle Chubb" was like the very first thing we played.

JC: I've listened to that album thousands of times, I had no idea that some of that stuff was born in the first session.

BM: The first notes we played we "Uncle Chubb".

JC: That's very cool.

BM: Yeah, so we did that and then we played the Village Gate a couple of times. And after that we got a gig at the Fez and the CB's gallery and the Knitting Factory and we started clubbing in New York and then we decided, let's hit the road; ya know, let's get out of the winter and let's go down south. Let's go down and play some of these coffee houses and some of these alternative clubs that we did with the Knitting Factory tour with other bands. So, we knew there was some scene out there. So, I started making some calls; I was the business guy.

JC: So you took care of all the booking?

BM: Yeah, I was the one who was really pushing it into a business. I had worked with Chuck Mangione and John Lurie and all of these heavy people who really ran things themselves and so I learned from them how they did it. Just about every band I played in there was a leader and I would check and see how they went about doing it and I was really very into that part of it because it's a very independant position to be in. So, I just started getting on the phone to these clubs and making posters and cards and gettin' into that. And eventually we caught on. After about a year or so of that we needed help and a friend of ours came and helped and then eventually Liz came along after playing her club- CB's Gallery- which she was booking. She was leaving CB's so we asked her, "Do you want to come on the road with us and be our road manager?" and she said, "yeah." And she came on the road with us and said, "You guys really need help, you need this and that..." and she really took the ball from there and it's grown even more.

JC: And that relationship with Liz worked out from the start?

BM: Yeah. She was like the addition to the family that really felt good. She really loved us like a mother; she really took care of us in that way, and in the business sense.

JC: I'm sure it really helped out on the road when all you want to have to worry about is playing your gigs.

BM: Yeah, totally. She would drive. We all shared this; the driving, the cooking, the selling of t-shirts, the loading in and loading out. Eventually, it all worked out. Now she's got an office and we have other on the road managers and she just watches over us like a mother.

JC: Speaking of t-shirts, you've done most of the cover art work for your albums. That symbol that has become the symbol of Medeski Martin and Wood, where did that come from?

BM: Well, I have a series of line drawings that I've been doing over the past ten years or whatever. I guess at the time we were together about five years ago I was doing these little logos with line drawing and I used to show the guys my stuff. And John just noticed that one particular and he said, "Ya know, that looks pretty cool. Why don't we use that one?" 'Cause we were talking about and we needed some image. John has a really good eye and said, "I think that one would be great."

JC: So John just pulled that one out of a stack of your drawings?

BM: Well, I had it on a page. I had a series of those related logos and he kind of picked that one out. I love to draw; I'm always doing that. I love setting things up, graphically, and setting things up in that way, so I just filtered that into the band.

JC: Your drawing and painting, is that just one more way of expressing yourself artistically or is it a specific kind of outlet.

BM: It's the same thing. It's just a different medium. I am, visually, very influenced so music and visuals both are so powerful. I'm so intruiged by sound and vision that I have to constantly be exploring ways of expressing myself and just checking it out. It's like food and I just absorb these things and regurgitate these things and put them out and using them like a language. It's just something I can't help but do and stay involved with.

JC: I know you've shown your work in New York gallerys before, is there anything coming up in the near future?

BM: No, there's nothing coming up right at this moment; there's no scheduled... no. As far as art goes there's nothing happening. I'm going to put up a website. It's just been crazy.... I'm getting married next month.

JC: Well, congratulations.

BM: Thank you. And so, I'm marrying my curator, my agent/curator; actually that's how we met. She used to work at CB's Gallery with Liz, but she also curated art shows there. And then she ended up curating a show at Steve Cannon's place. And she was great; we just share that together. So we've been really busy settling into our place here in Brooklyn. And she's starting up a literary arts journal for kids and so we're kind of busy. She's putting her energy into that and I'm putting my energy into writing a book about rythms and also I've got the CD that I did with Calvin Weston from the Lounge Lizards.

JC: I just read about that.

BM: And we're doing a concert at Tonic in New York on the 29th of August and that's really the only thing I have scheduled outside of the band.

JC: I'm sure your often asked about what kind of music has influenced you, can you recall where they first came from and how they progressed?

BM: I've been thinking about putting a list together. I've been thinking about trying to travel way back to the first influences that I had and my memory is so bad that only come out like, one little part here, one little part there. I almost feel like it's unfair to try and pick out just some of it. But, like I said my mom and my dad and those influences; my dad was playing in orchestras and my mom was doing Braodway stuff and Ellington and stuff like that. My brothers were listening to James Brown, Sly Stone, Allman Brothers, Hendrix. In high school I was listening to Blondie and the Police and Aerosmith, Led Zepplin, Black Sabbath... I'm leaving a bunch of stuff out, I'm sure... And then all the hip-hop: Grand Master Flash...

JC: Sure, being from the New York area you can't help, but have been influenced by what was going on in the early days of hip hop.

BM: Yeah, the whole New York hip-hop scene... And then I got into Beethoven stuff, Motzart, Beethoven, Hayden and I started checking out Stravinski, Ravel, Chaikofski, Prokoffiev... And then from there, Brazillian music, African music; Hermeto Pascual, Egberto Dusmante... all of the percussion samba groups. And then Gil Evans; I used to hang out with the Gil Evans Band and I listened to that stuff....

JC: What about today? What Cds do you have sitting by your stereo?

BM: One thing I'm listening to right now is Milford Graves, he's a drummer. He's got two Cds; one is on Zorn's label, it's a solo thing and the other one's a duet he did with somebody. Messeon, Olivier Messeon, a French composer.

JC: I have to confess that I'm not familiar at all with that one.

BM: He's amazing. He studied a lot... he's a very well rounded composer. He wrote for piano and organ and orchestras and everything. And I'm particularly into the stuff that he transcribed all of the bird songs and he turned it into his own music.... Georgie Leggettie is another one... Sun Ra... Let me see, I'm looking through my CD pocket.

JC: You're flipping through your discs right now?

BM: Yeah.... Bob Dylan, the bootleg series... The Shags... Fishing with John... John Lurie. It's all the music that he did for his fishing shows.... I'm listening to Charlie Parker.

JC: Sure, obviously, he's one of the classics.

BM: Yeah, you say obviously, but he's someone I've avoided for so long.

JC: Really? Why is that?

BM: Beacuase, when you hang out with jazz musicians who have checked Charlie Parker out... like at the time when I met [Bob] Moses he was anit-jazz. He was like, "Forget about that shit. I'm sick of the suits and conservative cats playing Charlie Parker tunes tryin' to immitate what he did. Fuck that shit. I want to play Rock 'n' Roll; I want to play hip-hop. I want to do Prince, I want to do Miles. I want to be creative and I want to be funky." So at the time I was like, well alright. I studied with teachers like Kenwood Denard who would pull out a Charlie Parker chart and say, "Check this out." And I would play along with the chart and make all the hits and I didn't really learn the spirit of Charlie Parker until I heard his music; like really listened to a whole compilation of his shit. And now that I'm into listening to birds and the sounds of nature and stuff... I mean, this kid... no wonder they called him "Bird". He's so melodic. I mean, I checked out Ornette Coleman before I checked out Charlie Parker. And I realized, oh shit, Parker was like and Ornette Coleman of the time. So now when I look at all his music now, I'm just going back in time. I'm just learning all of this stuff. When you grow up, you don't listen to the roots of anything. I mean, you're listening to the moment, you're listening to what's happening, as a kid. You're not checkin' some ancient shit out when you're like four years old. You're listening to what's playing on the radio and to what's accessable. So, I'm checking out Charlie Parker now and it's been some of the most inspiring shit I've heard in a long time.

JC: That's very cool that you've gotten around to that sort of stuff.

BM: Yeah. Yeah, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to be like Wynton Marsalis and I'm going to be teaching people the roots and that particular period of jazz. It just means that it's going to inspire my playing. It's going to be another part of my vocabulary now. I'm into New Orleans music, so I'm listening to a lot of the older Rag Time stuff now and how funky and creative that stuff was at the time. And that stuff was pre-Parker. It's like, you can get turned off really easily by people trying to emulate something that was happening a long time ago and we're just lucky that we can put on a record now and listen to that sort of stuff directly from the source. Beacuse I have to say that I don't really hear the energy from musician's who are emulating Charlie Parker music; from the musicians that are die-hard jazz nazi type... you know what I'm saying?

JC: Yeah, I do.

BM: And I don't really get that energy from them that I do from Charlie Parker. I get the enrgy from somebody who loves Charlie Parker, but doesn't try to be like him, but is influenced by his music... That's just an example of what I'm saying. So, I'm proud to say that I'm checking him out now.

JC: And it'll be something that will add that little bit more to your already wide knowledge of music.

BM: Yeah, especially on the melodic end. Being melodic and saying something with the instrument... and saying something when I paint and draw. It's the same thing. My drwaing is going to change because I listen to Charlie Parker.