Fat Mama

Fat Mama doesn't sound like the name of a band that could very well be the best funky acid jazz fusion band of the new Millennium. That label might be a bit long winded, but their music is indeed a colossal, experimental, progressive stew. They are indeed much more musically sophisticated than the name Fat Mama suggests.

They are a jazz big band with a thick, dense, wide ranging, genre bending sound that defies boundaries and classification. Too many electric jazz fusion bands are compared to Bitches Brew era Miles Davis. It is true that Miles was the master and an innovator. But it does both bands and fans a disservice to over use the comparison. Not enough bands are worthy enough of the comparison. And too many fans are lured into seeing a terrible electric jazz band just because the band themselves or a lazy writer compared them to Miles. So, hopefully, this will be the last time that this music journalist uses this comparison ever again. But with Fat Mama, it has to be done because Fat Mama is indeed that good. Fat Mama uses Miles Davis funk/fusion period as a steppingstone into their own cerebral, futuristic musical journeys. Miles is the base and Fat Mama adds nearly every other kind of music on top of Miles to create jazz fusion for the year 2,000 and beyond. Fat Mama's press kit claims their music contains elements of everything - bebop, ambient, post-bop, free-jazz, fusion, jungle, soul-jazz, world-jazz, funk, klezmer, trance, trip-hop, teen-pop, rock, reggae, dub, soul, R&B, Latin, African, and both country and western.

The members of Fat Mama (Brett Joseph (tenor sax), Jon Gray (trumpet, trombone), Jonathan Goldberger (guitar, tape loop systems), Erik Deutsch (electric piano, analog synthesizers, tape loop systems), Joe Russo (drums), Jonti Siman (bass) and Kevin Kendrick (turntables, vibraphone)) met and formed the band in Boulder, Colorado in 1996. They recently relocated to Rhode Island to make it easier to tour the East Coast. Their debut album "Mamatus" is available through the homegrown music network ( www.homegrownmusic.net). Fat Mama's most recent musical project was the soundtrack to the independent movie "Trans." The film was written and directed by guitarist Jonathan Goldberger's brother Julian. It has been shown at the Museum of Modern Art in New York City as well as the Sundance Film Festival, Toronto International Film Festival and the Berlin Film Festival.

It has been described as "A captivating meditation of youth in the American South." It is about a 16-year-old who escapes from a detention center and must deal with police, alligator infested swamps, rednecks and his family. "Trans" is currently playing on the Sundance Channel and you can find out more information about the film at their website ( www.sundancechannel.com). It will also soon be available at Blockbuster video in the Sundance section. The best way to experience Fat Mama just like all jam bands is to catch them live. They are currently on tour in the Northeast and will be heading to the South and Midwest in February and March. You can see the full list of tour dates on their website: www.fatmama.com. I spoke with drummer Joe Russo and guitarist Jonathan Goldberger over the phone and email about what life is like in an improvisational big band.

AJ - I know the name Fat Mama is taken from that classic Herbie Hancock song. But it still sounds like the name of lame bar band.

Joe - I think we have been hurt by the name. It doesn't really describe us or give you much to work with. When we started out we never thought we would be touring full time and all this stuff. Before we had a chance to change the name we were kind of stuck with it because everything snowballed. As we became well known it was too late to change the name.

AJ - Over the years, critics have always been negative towards jazz fusion. But Fat Mama has gotten many favorable reviews so far. How are you approaching jazz fusion differently than your predecessors? How do you create this special music without sounding too much like Miles Davis? Do the endless Miles Davis comparisons ever bother you? It seems like every single electric jazz fusion type band is compared to Miles.

Jonathan - We don't mind at all being compared to Miles. In fact it's a bloody great compliment. Miles' music is the fuckin' shit. Maybe it's easy to sound like Miles on the surface, but nobody really sounds like Miles. His music and his musicians are so fucking deep its ridiculous. For me, his 70s music was my stepping stone into jazz. What gave fusion a bad name was what happened in the 80s. The fusion movement in the 70s provided some amazing music - Miles, Herbie, Keith Jarrett, Mahavishnu Orchestra. Fat Mama is just pretending 80s fusion never happened. We're just pushing on. We hate labels anyway.

Joe - We take a new school approach to fusion. Sometimes when you think fusion you do think cheesy. But we add more of an edge to it. We do bring out the origins of what Miles and Herbie did and we do it rough and fully experimental. We bring in turntables and hip hop and dance trance grooves to update our music. I don't think we sound like Miles, but you can see the influence. We're never worried about copying, him. But if we were it wouldn't be that bad. We pull a lot from that time period for inspiration.

AJ - You are a jazz band but you play both rock and jazz clubs. How do you approach different gigs with different audiences? What are the differences between playing for the jazz crowd and playing for the rock crowd?

Joe - It's cool to crossover and hit different areas. We can go to the Knitting Factory and adapt to that and than we can do more rockin' stuff at the rock bars. We have an opportunity to reach different people; there are so many music cultures. We can fit well into either group and it's a blessing for us. We play to older audiences at jazz clubs, We like playing to everybody but we like to play for the older audiences because not a lot of bands our age get to do that. The gigs with Ron Miles in Colorado opened us up because he's the man. It showed we're not just punk ass kids and that we can actually play stuff they like. Of course, we still like the kids because the energy we get back from them at the shows just gets us off.

Jonathan - We certainly have different styles for different crowds, although we don't necessarily cater to them. I guess it breaks down to whether it is danceable or not. We have tunes that are in odd meters, some with no meters some ballads, some tunes are real noisy, and some are quiet. Most crowds are unable to digest large amounts of that. So when we do get a jazz audience their ears are a little more open to new sounds. But, personally, the best Fat Mama is when all the elements are fluid and balanced and we are not catering to any audience, jazz or rock.

AJ - When you play gigs for the dancing hippie crowd do you feel like you have to play more groove and funk tunes that the crowd can dance to?

Jonathan - Sometimes. But like I said before when we can balance it out well, everybody can dig it.

Joe - At some of the rock clubs you kind of are expected to make the crowd move a bit more. We try to play a bit of what the crowd wants without taking away from our sound for the night. We see who is there, why they're there and give them as much as we can.

AJ - Does it ever bother you that the hippie crowd dances too much?

Jonathan - Not at all. We get off watching the crowd dig us, and we do have ways to make them stop.

AJ - What has been the reaction from the real jazz crowd?

Jonathan - Always positive, although we've never heard any reactions from any bebop purists. We're not trying to be old school jazz. We are influenced by it and practice and listen to it. We're just playing music that is improvisationally centered whatever you want to call it. We've had some greats sit in with us, too. Ron Miles, from Bill Frisell's quartet has played with us a couple of times and has always been very supportive. Jorge Sylvester sat in with us the last time we played the Knitting Factory.

AJ - There are several other jazz influenced jam bands on the scene. Wetlands has hosted several shows featuring some of the best jazz/funk bands together on the same bill. What is your relationship with the other bands?

Joe - I'm psyched that it is so communal. There is not much of a competition. There is always a mutual respect. Everyone gets off on what they do. We just hang out and chill and talk music. Someone always sits in with someone else. We've teamed up with The Slip, ulu, Lake Trout and Miracle Orchestra. We've never had a bad night playing with other bands.

AJ - What is it like touring with such a huge band?

Joe - It is the funniest shit. Sometimes money can be tight with all the guys in the band. But we are all completely insane. Sometimes we get on each other's nerves. The music becomes intense because there are so many of us and so many different personalities. We have a big old school bus with beds and couches. It's as pimp as a ghetto school bus could be. Someone broke in it recently and took our Play Station and TV. We can get over the Play Station but not a guitar. Luckily, no instruments were taken. They were all with us on stage.

AJ - What effect does the rough touring arrangements (money, cramped living arrangements, traveling, etc.) have on your music and live gigs?

Joe - Our music becomes death jazz (laughs). Intense situations and fights carry over to the jams and our music can become so damn evil. Our first tour we bought a huge bus and it blew up quickly. We missed our first gig of our first tour. So we got a UHaul and squeezed into a smaller truck. We had three of us in the front and a bunch of us lying down to fit into the back. The music was much better because of it. The music changes and the experiences come through in the music.

Jonathan - We're pretty used to it. I think the worst thing for the music is consecutively small audiences. Suffering on the road is worth it when the music is getting heard. But when audiences are small night after night it starts to wear on us. Nonetheless, we've played some really great music to nobody.

AJ - What creates better jams - a good day or a bad day?

Joe - We've had great musical experiences from both. We've had different reactions from both. It sucks having a bad day but when it turned out to make good music it was all worth it. We can turn anger into intense musical situations.

AJ - What kind of musical dialogues do you have with each other during a show? How does musical dialogue compare to verbal dialogue?

Jonathan - The very nature of improvisation depends upon a musical dialogue. During a performance you have to listen and you have to speak (musically). Finding the right balance can be difficult between seven musicians. Talking about music away from performances is also crucial for us.

AJ - It's extremely difficult for small rock bands to make enough money to get by, let alone a jazz big band like Fat Mama. How are you guys able to support so many musicians? Have you ever considered scaling down the band to make it easier to tour?

Jonathan - Yes, it is very hard supporting ourselves especially after relocating to the East Coast. We actually have scaled down the band by losing two percussionists. We'd never go any further just because everybody else is too important to the overall sound. Not having enough money has just kept us from putting out more recordings. We have one CD out, Mamatus, which is three years old, almost as old as the band. We have the material to put out at least three more.

AJ - With such a large band, what effect does your personal relationships have on your music?

Jonathan - We do get beefs with each other now and then - that's the importance of communicating off the stage in rehearsal. It is the music itself that keeps us together.

AJ - Are there times when one or two guys try to force a jam somewhere that the other band members don't want to go to?

Jonathan - I hope not. In this type of band you need to go with the flow, wherever it's going. That's when the music fails - when people start second guessing each other and letting their egos take over.

AJ - How are you able to successfully mix so many different genres of music together? How are you able to successfully mix so many different instruments together without the music sounding too crowded?

Jonathan - The mixing of genres is the sound. We all have different backgrounds in music from bebop to hip-hop to experimental to metal to almost everything else out there in the musical world. That's where our sound comes from. It's not like we're a bunch of jazz geeks who calculated "how can we do something witty and smart by mixing genres?" It just happened. After over 3 years together we have assimilated each other's influences, making us more well-rounded musicians. It's always changing and developing and as long as we have our ears and our heads open it works. Sometimes it does get pretty dense but that's just us, our sound.

Joe - Our different musical backgrounds makes us sound different. Kevin comes from hip hop, I'm the rocker who used to listen to Kiss and shit. Eric is an amazing jazz pianist, Jon is into abstract and avant stuff, Brett is into reggae, and Jon Gray is a big band straight-ahead jazz guy. We all put in our own thing without thinking. Everyone perceives something differently, yet it all comes together! We really can mix it up so well. Most of what we do is highly improvisational. Sometimes we get lost in a jam and we got into an area and we were screwed. Sometimes different guys want to go to different areas and it clashes a bit. But when we are on the same page it becomes Vulcan mind melt improv.

AJ - How do turntables fit into your sound?

Jonathan - Turntables are just another texture for our sonic landscape. We're really into how Art Ensemble of Chicago and Sun Ra's Arkestra used unconventional instruments to provide more colors for their music. Since we are an instrumental band we need to keep the sounds interesting for the listener. Kevin is also really into hip-hop and that's just another element in the fusing of elements that is Fat Mama.

AJ - Peter Prince from Moon Boot Lover will be joining you on tour for a bunch of gigs. Are you looking for a permanent lead singer? Did you co-write any new songs with him?

Jonathan - I think what we play will be a big surprise. Peter is amazing and we're going to have a lot of fun, but we definitely are not looking for a full-time singer.

Joe - I'm not sure what we are gonna do. We might get some new material or play some old funk covers, Tower of Power tunes, or old Motown R&B. We're really looking forward to throwing down some Tower of Power. These shows will give us a chance to throw down stuff we don't normally do.

AJ - What was it like working with your brother on "Trans?"

Jonathan - Working with my brother was very natural and the entire experience of doing "Trans" was amazing. My very first musical experiences were me and my brother jamming in the garage. Not only did we do music for the film, but Erik Deutsch and myself went on location and recorded sound while the film was being shot. My brother is extremely particular about what he wants, but we both share similar visions.

AJ - Describe how your brother's film making style is similar to your approach to music, if indeed they are similar. "Trans" has been described as using improvisational and experimental film techniques.

Jonathan - That is certainly true, "Trans" uses improvisation and spontaneity to deliver a more realistic truth, while Fat Mama certainly thrives on these elements. There is also a similarity in our willingness to depart from what is written - whether it is a script or a composition.

AJ - Did Fat Mama compose the music for "Trans" or did the band just play the music? Is your brother a composer too? In one interview he said "Everything I do comes out of a particular piece of music." Was he referring to his own music? Or Fat Mama music? So, what came first the soundtrack or the filming?

Jonathan - We composed music for the film after it was shot. We collaborated with Julian about what type of music certain scenes called for and recorded about 15 hours worth of music. Much of the music that we recorded for the score consisted of broken down elements of Fat Mama - solo keyboards, percussion ensembles, solo guitar, 20 piece orchestra, among others. That was the score. He then used parts of formal Fat Mama when he finally edited the film. You can hear parts of Fat Mama compositions, that we play live, such as "Riot Life" and "Bloodborne."

Joe - We had a percussion room freak out session as we played to the movie. That was for an escape scene.

AJ - Were you an outcast in your hometown? What effect did that have on your music? Your brother said you used to just sit in your room and play music all day.

Jonathan - Living in such a boring town required us to be creative in order to entertain ourselves. So, yes, I spent lots of practicing and listening to music.

AJ - Can you relate to any of the characters in "Trans?"

Jonathan - Definitely. I think any kid who grew up in Ft. Myers, or any small town, can relate to "Trans."

AJ - Are you going to continue to do film soundtrack work with your brother?

Jonathan - Yes, we'll be working together for the rest of our lives.

AJ - What was it like leaving Boulder to move to the East Coast? What was your farewell show like?

Joe - We were excited to leave Boulder. We grew there as a band. It was a good nurturing place because there was no high pressure. We had time and space to grow and do what we wanted to do. We were so excited to come out here and play all the markets we wanted to play. On the East Coast we can see so many different people and different musicians and we can constantly play.

Our last show was raging. Everyone who was ever at a Fat Mama show in Colorado was there. It was in the summer and school was out but it was still packed. It was a great vibe. Luckily everyone was positive about us leaving. It was a great night musically. It was the best way to have left town.