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24 Questions - Russ Lawton on Trey Tour, Jam Bands, and Jewel

by Benjy Eisen

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I recently met up with Russ Lawton in Binghamton, NY for lunch. We walked around the downtown area for a little bit before settling in at a coffee shop, where we sat down and discussed, in a stream-of-consciousness way, what it's like playing drums in Trey Anastasio's band, the jam band scene at large, and Jewel.

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1. You've been called 'The drummer with the Mozambique feel.' How would you define that feel?

Well basically I learned it like a Brazilian thing which they do based on Lebanese - it's like that dotted kind of feel, a-one-ee-and-a-two-ee-and... And that's what's on top, like a cow bell. We have this thing 'Mozambique' with Trey which we play and when we play it with Gordon Stone it's called 'Abdul - The Medley' and that's the second section. I use that beat on 'Last Tube.' So it's something that I play. I never get a chance to use it but I have this last year, it's been great. So it's probably one of those beats you store in the background and we get to pull it out.

2. The jam band scene is great for a lot of bands because it's not just one sort of style - it's more of an attitude....

Right. And it's great for me because I grew up in that and to see that and to be an elder musician on the scene...and I'm still kinda bummin' out about being around Boston - I'm not really into that scene anymore. And to be in this is like really a breath of fresh air, man. It's been an amazing year.

Where do you see the seeds of the jam band thing that's going on right now?

I don't really know because I remember thinking many many years ago with the Grateful Dead - and the people would be into the rhythm and the percussion - and I would think, with Zzebra, that we should've moved to San Francisco. You know what I mean? This is going back 20 years. Zzebra started in 1977. That's when I moved to Vermont, man. That's a long time ago. It's hard to believe it's been that long but...I think, you know, so it probably started with Phish. They opened people's ears. I mean the new generation came in, you know? It was wild for me because I'd been trying to fit in with The Natives which was kinda like pop - a really good song band. And I mean when the whole grunge thing was happening it was rough for us. We were trying to find our niche, you know? And then I see this other thing happening. It was like, I'll never forget reading this thing in New York in some magazine. Phish was playing at Madison Square Garden and this record guy was saying to his son, 'Where are all these kids coming from? What's this thing?' And a lot of the people don't even know what's going on.

A lot of it is still underground...

Yeah, they don't do videos, they get some airplay at a couple...I mean I don't know how much they do but I know where I come from there's this station, The River, which is adult alternative and they play them. But...that's what's kinda cool about them. I love that better, you know?

People are there for the music. It wasn't force-fed to them. They went digging for it and they found it.

Yeah, and that's what's good about it. And that's why, with Gordon, I've seen him kicking around in Vermont for years and now we get e-mails from all over the country from colleges that want us and it's like so wonderful man. It's cool man, believe me.

3. How's it different playing with the Gordon Stone Band versus with Trey Anastasio?

Musically this is more of a rock funk thing where Gordon tries to put more jazz - it's improv and it's a little more stretched out, a little more 'twisty.' And my roots are really what you'll hear tonight. Like that funk kinda rock thing, laying it down. And the older you get, the simpler you play. So I mean I'm more of a - what we're doing is, a couple of songs we're even kinda getting this house music, acid jazz kinda thing going. Lay down the beat, because Tony's just an amazing bass player and it's just like a THICK groove, you know?

4. When you approach it, do you say, 'Okay I'm going to see what I can bring to this music?' or do you say, 'Okay, the music dictates that I play this other way?'

Well I think I bring stuff to the table because the first time the three of us got together to see if it could work, Trey was like, 'Play me some beat that you love' and a lot of those songs were written from those beats or grooves. I mean his approach was like, 'Okay, let's keep this as comfortable as possible instead of me trying to...' You know, whatever. And he wrote some songs around it basically. Like 'Mozambique' was written from just jamming and it was cool. Just like this song 'First Tube' and this other one called 'Sand' which is turning into an amazing acid jazz song. I just had this acid jazz beat that I played, you know what I mean? So I brought something to the table that I liked doing and Tony and I hooked up. And then after that, other songs have been...Trey brought some demo stuff in and you know, it's a mixture.

5. So then all of you brought stuff into it - do you know how many songs were written?

Basically what he did was, it was written but I mean he'd just get the tape rolling and I think we had like a list on this little board, like different beats, we just made names for them. He'd go, 'What's a different beat you like?' or Tony would have a groove or he would have [something]... you know, it's just like throwing stuff out there.

6. Did Tom Marshall write the lyrics?

Some of the stuff, yeah. I remember Trey had this book with a lot of lyrics. So with the 8 Foot Fluorescent Tubes there's a lot of those beats and some stuff has stayed in the setlist and some hasn't. And then he did some songs that he did with Tom up in his barn a couple of years ago, like this song 'Somartin' and this song 'Heavy Things.'

Both of which kick ass, I might add. I mean, Somartin...

Isn't it an amazing tune?

I first heard a demo version of it on this outtakes tape that's floating around, from the Story of the Ghost sessions, and I guess the version you're playing now is a little different...

Yeah that song, man, it's very emotional. I remember, I've had to calm it down a little because I'd get too emotional. And 'Heavy Things' is a really...a lot of those songs - 'Farmhouse,' he does that by himself in his acoustic set - are really good songs. I'm into writing songs too and so I'm a sucker for a really good song.

7. Let's talk about the cover tunes. You guys are doing 'Bell Bottom Blues'...

Yeah, amazing song!

'I Can See Clearly Now,' Hendrix's 'Voodoo Child'...

Yeah we've been going nuts over that. And that's my roots. I mean when I was a kid.

I think that's everybody's roots somehow...

Yeah, well it just keeps carrying over because he's so bloody amazing. I mean, I listened to Electric Ladyland when I was a kid everyday after school and remember being in tears when it came to Voodoo Child and being like, "Oh man!" And you know Stevie Ray covered it too. But we just lay it down, man - the funk.

8. Who came up with the master list of covers?

Trey would be somewhere and hear a song and he'd get hyped on it and give a call to Kevin [Shapiro] who gets all the CD's and puts them on tape and sends them out to us. But basically he was going for the - it was kinda like the AM roots. Like I know sometimes I'm driving somewhere and I'm so burnt I can't listen to regular radio and I'll listen to like the hits from the Kool, what do they call that station? Cool songs from the past and then you hear these songs with different ears. You're more of a musician than when you were a little kid. You react differently to different songs.

I agree. There are songs I used to hear on the radio growing up, and when I first got really into music I kinda dismissed them. But now I hear them and I'm like, 'This is great!'

It's a new production of 'I Can See Clearly Now.' The bridge is like totally amazing. I remember sitting there when we were learning it, 'Oh, I never realized it was like this!'

You hear more things 'cause your ears are better. It's just something, not necessarily something that we play, but I've listened to songs on that station and I'll go 'Wow, that drum fill is like really off!' Or what's that great Stones' one, 'Time is on my side?' The tambourine is like, 'Time, che-t-che.' The tambourine is way off. And you know that's cool too, not to make fun of it. But it's cool if it's in back.

9. You're in Trey Anastasio's band now, do you feel like you have free reign with it?

Yeah, I don't feel restricted at all man. I mean he's got an agenda that he's working with. And I've come into the thing 'to do the best job' and I remember on a couple of things you make little mistakes and you're really like 'Oh man! I don't want him to...' You know, 'cause some leaders are really hardcore.

We go for a certain feel. And for me, if you're bringing a song to the table then you've lived with that song a lot longer than I have and you've got this vision. Because I know that when I write songs, I'm walking around thinking about them, demoing them and I mean if someone brings something to the table that's better, then great but...you know, it's very open. It's song to song. I don't feel uptight about it if I don't do it exactly but there is a feel we're going for.

Things have grown. It's been fun because we did two shows - we did a show and I didn't see him for a year and then six months in we did a show. Now we're doing this tour and things are just like...it's so fun to see it find its own little thing.

I mean I don't play any junk - I like to believe that I'm a fairly refined drummer, so it's not like Trey would turn around, 'What the hell was that fill'? We all make mistakes and stuff but I mean, you know, I feel that it's very open. With Gordon too.

10. When you're in an improvisational jam, with any band, do you as a drummer let the lead instruments take control, even for tempo changes, or do you sometimes take control?

I go both ways. I know with Trey it's funny, because he was saying that Neil Young really liked Phish because they wait for things to happen. They don't force it. And that's kinda like what we've been doing. Like with this thing 'Sand.' It's almost some kind of house mix or acid jazz - it switches ever so slightly. Not every song is like that, but... So he dictates that way and some songs I'll react if Trey's doing a solo or a guitar player I'm playing with is doing a solo - I react. I really listen, man, and I really try to react to the solo. And then if things, you know...whatever. I try to let it play itself. And that's when it's the best, you know?

11. How did you guys prepare for, for this tour? With most bands, you start off by forming as a band, and it takes a little while to build material, and then maybe you do a gig as an opener and then, a month or so later, you open again and maybe do a show of your own on a Monday night or something and it takes time. This seems more like, 'Okay we're going to do this' and suddenly it's like a legitimate project now, even selling-out every night of a theater tour. How did you guys prepare for it?

Well you see what we did, when he called well over a year ago, we'd go up and do like a Tuesday/Wednesday rehearsal. Tuesday all day, Wednesday 'till like two or three. I'd go back home and do gigs with Gordon or whatever. We did that two or three times. Then we just had tapes so I'd work really hard at home.

But then when we did that one show, he called me and - it's amazing, I remember I just got back from doing all these gigs in New York with Gordon and January 2nd the phone rings. And I'm like, 'I'm home for the night. I have no gigs this week. I'm going to stay home and do my thing.'

And Trey called, 'What are you doing this Thursday?' and I'm like, 'Hey what's up, man?'...And then I'm like, 'Well honey, I guess I'm going back up to Vermont this weekend.' Heh!

And so we did like the same thing. We did two days and he goes, 'Hey I've got this gig February 15th. You wanna do it?'

And I'm like 'Sign me up, man!' So we did that. So we'd get together three times like that, back to back. I think we did like three or four. We worked really hard - get up there and drink coffee and pound it out, you know? And that first day, we all stayed up at the rehearsal space. We just crashed there, and we just were working on stuff twelve at night still, so... but just working hard, you know? Then I would come home. And then after that I remember I went to LA to hang out with some friends and I got a message, and he's like, 'Let's do a tour, man!' And I'm like, 'Okay! Let's do it!'

So then - same thing: We went up to the barn and I think we did like six rehearsals - the back-to-back kinda thing. And then we did it.

12. I know with Phish they practice a lot, even on the road. They'll work on stuff at soundcheck and even on days off they've been known to go into a studio. Have you guys done any of that?

We haven't been doing that that much. We do soundcheck and learn a song or work on some things but we've just been kinda hanging out, you know? I used to have my drum pad out during the day but I'm trying to like mix it up a little bit, appreciating being in some different places and getting inspiration that way too. I feel kinda guilty - I'm like 'I should be practicing right now.' For years, two hours before the gig I'd practice and I'm just trying to see the sights a little bit more.

But we've been working on...we added some songs. Like we played 'The Wind Cries Mary' for Trey's friend the other night; this woman Marriette and her husband. They're from Atlanta. That was cool.

I was excited when I saw that on the setlists the other night.

Yeah, that was great! I grew up with that. And we've been raging 'Live at The Fillmore' on the bus, so we've been cranking that up.

Band of Gypsies -That's a great album.

Yeah, it's an amazing album!

13. Is there any talk of continuing this thing at all, or at some point maybe doing an album, or another tour?

Yeah, as long as...yeah. I mean I know that even with the crew, everybody's really psyched on it. And when we started, Trey was like, 'Get ready for the crew cause they're going to give their opinion. 'Cause they always give their opinion.' Which is cool - which is great. But everybody's been amazing and I would like to believe that we'll still do it. Who knows, you know? I think everybody's having a great time - Trey, Tony and myself. And I would love to do it. You know, when Phish is off the road. I know that they're taking a month to rehearse but they've been off since January so it's like, he wants to keep busy and he's a hard working man. I have so much respect for that fact. It's like so cool! You don't rest on no laurels man.

So I mean, we talked. We said, 'Let's keep doing this!' Whatever. But who knows man? I take it a day at a time. I don't mean AA either but that's the way I look at it. And I like to believe that we'll keep doing it, but whatever man. He's reaching all the time and I totally respect that.

14. Phish fans when they go to a Phish concert like to get down. Has it been that type of vibe at these shows?

Oh yeah! You'll see for yourself tonight, but people have been getting really into it and that's just so great!

15. With the Gordon Stone Band, you guys get to play with a lot of the younger jam bands that are just starting out - bands that have been around for just a couple of years. Bands like the Slip...

Who sound great, by the way! I was blown away by them when we played the Berkfest, man. It was just perfect.

16. What do you make of some of these younger jam bands? Are there any in particular that stand out to you?

Let's see. We've played with a bunch of them...I'm trying to see who else...the Slip really, those guys are cool. I'm trying to think now, cause we've done a bunch of these shows and...well, I saw Galactic and I like those guys. I can't think of any others off the top of my head. I'll have to come back on that one. But there's definitely a lot of guys trying to do something, you know? That whole scene is really cool. Some rise up and some don't. Some should rise up and they don't for whatever reason.

Especially a lot of the jazz cats who have influenced the jam band scene. Groups like Medeski Martin and Wood who have put more of a groove behind it.

Yeah. You know, they did the Scofield record and we played with them when we did the Autumn Equinox Festival in Maryland. Four years ago did you ever think he'd be playing on the jam band circuit? You know what I mean? Not to put him down, but...

Well none of the jam kids knew about him until Medeski.

And that's the cool side about it. I mean sometimes it's like, 'Okay what qualifies?' I know being in Boston, nobody was giving us any airplay. I remember one radio station said 'Well you guys just aren't hard edged enough' and I'm like [makes a face]. I mean, everybody's just trying to keep their job and fit in on the radio and this and that but it's just...sometimes it's like 'This band's a jam band and this isn't' and I don't know man - it's such a funny business. Everybody's got their opinion. There's this really good book called 'Hit Men'. It's a really good book, if you ever get a chance to read it. And then at the end of it, it's talking about A&R guys and one guy goes, 'When it comes right down to it, nobody really knows.'

I mean, who would've ever thought that this whole jam band thing would take off? People don't know. It's just when you least expect it. I can remember when I was with this band The Natives. Gene Simmons [of Kiss] has a label and he was really into our band. He was dropping our tape. It was like a two-part deal - he signed us and then we'd get like Columbia to put it out or something. And he was dropping our tape and all these record people came down from New York and everybody was like, 'Um, I guess women in rock is just not happening right now.' This is 1987, '88, '89. And can you believe, I mean, now - you can't get away from it! And it's probably going to level off a little bit but those were the comments we were getting. Same thing! And Mary Amsterbrook is as good as a songwriter as Sarah McLaughlin or any of those people. She's way better than Jewel.

17. This tour is a tour of theaters and mid-sized venues. How are they different to play, acoustically, than clubs?

At first you think you have to play harder and you may play a little bit harder just 'cause the sound's got somewhere to go, but you've got such a great system. We've got this guy Bruno on the monitors and Paul [Languedoc] out front and all the sudden you realize that - it happens pretty quickly - you can do the same thing, but you've got all the head room, man. And so it's pretty much the same. If anything, if I have no monitors, I might hit harder, you know?

18. What about versus playing outdoors at festivals?

Well it's funny because we did the first theater, and then the second one I was like, 'Yeah, this theater sounds better than last night's.' It's funny that you're saying that but it's like even the theaters have their better sounds. You can go 'This club sucks, it sounds awful!' or at a place like The Higher Ground where it's like 'Oh that sounds really good' - it's the same thing. It's the same odds sometimes...better odds I think, but you're still definitely dealing with it.

19. You're singing on this tour?

Yeah. Back-ups. And the whole Gordon Stone tour I was on the back of the van working on my harmony parts. I bought a little walkman - I just wore the thing out.

'Cause I never did a whole lot of that. I did a little bit of harmony but when you're playing drums you can't go like 'Okay it's the root' and then play the F chord - I can't cheat man. I've got to know them by heart. I'm up on the drums. Some parts come easier than others. And I wanted to do a really good job; I wanted to nail it man. It's important.

20. Every time you do any different project, you always pull something away from it with you. What do you think you've learned specifically from playing with Trey and Tony.

Let's see. Obviously, putting things across. If anything, I was thinking about this, this morning when I woke up, how we haven't really played that much together but how we pull...it's like a professional band. 'Okay we've got this amount of time and we've got to make it sound like this.' We've just got quality players. Although some bands will do that, you know - do one rehearsal and they'll go out and do the gig and it will sound really good. So that, and just the vibe and just having a good time and stretching out a little bit. And just like how Trey would go, 'Just learn this song' and throwing it out there and feeling good about that. And the whole energy. When we played in Asheville we had a night off and everybody went out to dinner and everybody relaxed and it showed in the gig, you know? It's like a party kind of thing, you know? And musically it's having some fun, just putting it out there man, just feeling good about it. And just seeing how it all pulls together. To me it was just amazing how I could lay down a beat and Trey would go write a song around it. It was like totally cool man! And a good song, you know? A really good song! That's amazing.

And fun.

Yeah!

That comes across in the music, I think. Music is always honest.

Yeah, you know it's like when we did the 8 Foot Fluorescent Tubes thing. That was like the best show I have done, 'cause we had theatrics and things like that, in the least amount of time. Plus it was Trey's doing. But it's like he made a show out of it. You see how can you make something happen in the least amount of time and just really pull this off and make this like 'wow' impressive, you know?

21. Have you guys been talking about the shows afterwards and reviewing them that way?

Yeah, but not in full detail. I know Tony and I might pull aside, and we both want to do the best job we can do; we're both very appreciative to be here, you know? But we don't get into long detail about it. If we have a great show everybody gives each other a hug and we have a great night or there's definitely some, 'Woah, what went on tonight? That was amazing!' or some night may be like, 'Okay - it was good but...I get two. Every night.' - I was talking to Brad about that. It's like I remember watching the Olympics one time and you see these skaters and they're going to be judged on this one performance and they fall down.

After practicing for months with perfect runs.

Right! What a drag! A so every day is different. The guy is having an off-day. I remember one night, I think it was St. Louis, I just didn't have enough sleep and I was really spacing out and I played *decent* but it wasn't like the night before and it's like - why? Some days you can read the whole newspaper and some days you can't even look at the thing, you know?

22. A question for the fanboys. What has been your favorite shows of the tour, favorite highlights, that sort of thing? So far, anyway - I know the Flynn and the Fillmore are still yet to happen.

South Carolina was really cool, the whole vibe of the town. It's interesting - the first show was amazing 'cause it was just sort of fun and we were feeling around a little bit. That was Ann Arbor. Then we were in uh...where were we after that, man? I wish I had my book with me - Chicago was it? But that was really good. And then like the third night it was really good too but I was a little not as relaxed...but something else happened. You know, like every night has had its own special thing. And I remember in Saint Louis - that was the night that I was slippin'. I wasn't as on as I could be. But every night had its little special thing to it. And then at the 9:30 Club, that was really raging. I remember I broke two sticks and that was my big thing - I was like 'Woah, I broke two sticks!' I never break sticks, you know?

23. Did you throw them out at the crowd, 'rock and roll' style?

Ha! Nah, but actually I did give some sticks out to the kids. They asked me for them and that was beautiful. But every night has its things. I remember in Chicago, we got into this thing - we do 'I Can See Clearly' and we'd ride the D out and it would just kinda simmer down. And what was that other song? I think we were doing 'Ooh Child' and we'd just ride it out. We'd just ride out that groove and it was like Curtis Mayfield or something. And we'd just bring it way down and just play light. That was a night that the lighter stuff really worked, I thought, really well.

24. Any mad crazy road stories?

No, I mean it's pretty common. We just get some folks backstage, hang out, meet some people and it's been great and everyone's really appreciative...But you know, we're not raging around. We're hanging out and staying out late once in awhile but it's been great. I imagine if we stayed out there for a couple months it would get a little crazier or whatever. Start drinking more or something. Haha!

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Interviewer Benjy Eisen is currently starring in Mountain Dew commercials as the 'Do The Dew' boy.