by Rob Turner

Here is the conclusion of the lengthy interview with Jorma Kaukonen, which began in the April issue. In this segment Jorma talks about the many storied musicians who have performed with him over the years. More information about Jorma is available at his web site, http://www.furpeaceranch.com. In addition, Hot Tuna will be opening a number of shows for the Allman Brothers Band this summer. Tuna tourdates and info can be found at http://www.hottuna.com.

RST - Now we enter the "memories" portion of the interview. First of all, I mentioned The Triumphs, what do you remember about The Triumphs? You played rhythm guitar, and Jack (Casady) played lead, right?

Jorma - Yeah, I was the rhythm guitar and singer. Jack played lead; we had drums, and a bass player that couldn't afford a bass, so he played on the muted strings of a Country Gentleman or something like that. We were just kids, we weren't even a garage band, we were a living room band. Parents used the garage for cars in those days. It's just funny stuff. We did a single with this guy... Covell... what's his first name?... (groans) my mind is gone, I can't remember his name.... We did a single with this guy, one side was called Symbol Of Our Love, and the other was, Magic Key. It's a 78, and I have probably the only one in existence. This is funny because, maybe somebody, like Jack wanted one, and I say, "No, you can't have one, because somebody will get a copy. This way there's only one." I put it on D-88 in case I trip over it and break it or something like that. We're gonna put it on an Anthology one of these days. It's not bad. It's this twangy, 50s kind of thing. The singer sounds like that. Jack takes a real nice twangy guitar solo, with natural room echo; I mean the whole deal you know? I listened to it after the fact, and I used to think, "God, we must have really been horrible." We weren't that horrible. We weren't that original, but we weren't that horrible.

RST - Well, musicians often think they're doing worse than they really are at times.

Jorma - Yeah, and listen to it after and think, "gee, it wasn't that bad." I remember our first job we played some Sorority party at the Wilson High School that we went to. I think we made enough money to get a hamburger at the Hot Shop or something like that afterwards. But, I remember thinking at the time, "Hey, it may not get any better than this."

RST - How about Ian Buchanan and his connection with Rev. Gary Davis, and his effect on you?

Jorma - Ian is my teacher that really got me to sit down and actually learn how to finger pick and stuff. I met him in Yellow Springs, OH at Antioch College. Ian had actually... I've never studied with the Reverend, and I'm not a Rev. Gary Davis authority, but I do love his music. My door into that stuff was Ian. Ian's dead, unfortunately, but he was a great guitar player, a really nice guy. I theorize after the fact that the reason that he took me under his wing is that my "Triumph-style" thrashing just probably drove him nuts, because we had rooms next to each other in this little house. He probably figured the only way to do this is to teach this guy how to do something I could stand to listen to. He really, basically said, "come here kid, let me show you how to play."

RST - And Rev. Gary's music is still a large part of your repertoire.

Jorma - Oh absolutely. My playing style is not a Rev. Gary Davis style, and when people are really interested in that I always suggest Stefan Grossman's books, or Roy knows how to do it really well. There are a lot of people who know how to do that. But the spirit of his music has certainly infused my playing a lot and I love his songs.... He's still the man as far as I'm concerned.

RST - How about the early days with Janis Joplin in blues and honky-tonk bars?

Jorma - I met Janis the first weekend that I moved to California. It would have been in '62. I was living in Santa Clara; I was going to school there. There was a little coffeehouse in San Jose called the Folk Theater, later on it was called the Off Stage, but it was called the Folk Theater. They had a Hootenanny, few people remember what a Hootenanny is these days, but some do. We had a Hootenanny, Jerry was there, and Pigpen, and Janis, and Steve Talbot and alotta people. I had just come from the East Coast, and I was a big Memphis Minnie fan, so I knew a lot of those songs. I knew how to play them - I couldn't sing them. Janis, of course, was superlative at singing those songs. So, I got to play with her, and I remember at the time thinking, "man, this is unbelievable," because she was unbelievable.

RST - It was pretty obvious even then that this was a special performer?

Jorma - Oh, she was out there, no question about it.

RST - Then the coffee shop days started with Paul (Kantner, co-founder of Jefferson Airplane), Jerry, and I guess you met Marty (Balin, another original Airplane member) that way?

Jorma - Actually Paul met Marty in San Francisco at the coffee shops. I lived down the Peninsula. I didn't move to San Francisco until Paul conned me into joining the Airplane. So, I wasn't really as familiar with the guys up there. Jerry and his friends were from Palo Alto; they were a little closer to where I lived. And of course we were more interested in the same kind of music and stuff so...it was still sort of a close knit family. Marty was more into the "commercial Folk thing," which of course was great when we started to play rock 'n roll, because he knew all about vocal ranging and stuff like that which I still don't know a thing about.

RST - Where do you stand with Kantner these days, he seems like a warm guy, but then every once in a while I will read something that he said that's completely confounding?

Jorma - I don't really talk to Paul very much. I guess we're friends. We're probably friends when we don't have to work together. I mean we're all idiosyncratic guys, and Paul is certainly opinionated. There's no question about it. Sometimes his opinions are confounding. I guess in my old age I'm just a much more conservative guy than he is, really, I don't know. He is confounding sometimes.

RST - People talk about the fuzz guitar on the introduction of White Rabbit as the beginning of....

Jorma - Actually that's not even a fuzz guitar.

RST - What was it?

Jorma - What was I playing? I was either playing a Guild Thunderbird, or a Gibson ES 345, just cranked through either the Standell, or whatever the Lovin' Spoonful guys had, 'cuz of course if they had one, I had to have one too (or a twin)! It was pre-fuzz tone, it was just what they do when you crank 'em up, you know.

RST - But it's credited by many as spawning a whole sound in rock 'n roll guitar.

Jorma - I'll take it! I don't know if it's true or not but....

RST - And then the whole thing about being lumped in with Cream and The Hendrix Experience, did you guys influence each other?

Jorma - I don't know if I influenced them. I think there's no question that Cream influenced me in many ways. I mean Hendrix is a superlative musician, but I really liked Clapton's crisper kind of style better. I remember the first time Jack and I went and saw Cream live at the Fillmore. I really flipped. In fact, I went back to the Apartment that I had, and I took my Rickenbacker 12 string and threw it through a wall like a spear. I mean, thank God it didn't break, because I sold it immediately thereafter. But I was like (in a voice mocking youthful petulance) "I'm done with this folk rock crap." I still think it was one of the greatest performing bands I've ever seen.

RST - Do you have any memories from the 1989 Jefferson Airplane reunion tour?

Jorma - The '89 Airplane tour was a real interesting thing for me, because I got reintroduced to the "music business" again. I saw some things that I liked and didn't like about it. For whatever reasons, by the time the tour was over the band was just starting to gel. But I talked to a lot of people, guys that I know, that said, "I'm too young to have heard the Airplane in the days. I'm really glad to have heard you guys play those songs again." So, I think that's great. Personally, it so much less top-heavy to do the stuff that I do now. I don't have to deal with six or seven other disparate personalities. I learned a lot from it. I probably complained a lot at the time. But after the fact, it was an educational experience. Like I say, I heard some tapes later, and once again, it sounds pretty good.

NOTE - I ended the interview by asking him about a bunch of songs that haven't been performed much recently, and was delighted that he treated me to a private mini-performance of some chestnuts.

Here are some of his comments:

on Killing Time In A Crystal City

I haven't done that for a while. I'm doing Police Dog Blues as an encore now, which is in the same tuning. Maybe I'll mess around with it backstage and see if I remember all the words to it. It's been a while. It's not hard to play, but it's not in my active memory. But you never now, sometimes things come back if you don't think about 'em too hard.

on Serpent Of Dreams

We brought it back a couple of years ago with Hot Tuna. Serpent Of Dreams is very similar to I See The Light, it doesn't really sound the same, but it's in the same family of songs. I don't like to do them in the same set. I have my E-minor opus now, or suite whatever you call it. And the cornerstone for this is I See The Light so Serpent Of Dreams is on hold here for a while.

on Land Of Heroes

It's really funny, because you kind of get in your comfort zone with repertoire. And that's one that I really, I've never done it that many times live. I mean I know how to play it, but I really need to get the words together. I really like the song too. I actually wanted to play it the other night, at the same time I wanted to do Re-Enlistment Blues and I realized I didn't remember all the words, and Re-Enlistment Blues is every day of the week. So, you can't forget a verse. It's like, "what happened to Wednesday," you know?

I should relearn some of the songs off "Land Of Heroes," I've been remiss. on And I Like It (Kaukonen/Balin composition from Airplane days which foreshadowed Hot Tuna, even though it was sung by Marty Balin)

I don't think I've played that song since... the Avalon Ballroom.