September Issue Home | Editors | Features | Columns | Photos | Regional | New Groove Road Trip | Tour Journal | Venue | Levels | Ghosts | Homegrown | Inaudible | CDs | Charts

Sco For It: John Scofield reflects on
Making Music with Miles, MMW and His Own Band

by Dean Budnick

---

John Scofield is a hero to many. The Berklee-trained guitar player emerged from that school in the mid-seventies and plunged into the jazz scene in a trial by fire performing with such legendary players as Gerry Mulligan and Chet Baker. His career carried him from one legend to another, recording with Charles Mingus and serving a three year stint in Miles Davis' band.

Many readers of jambands.com probably know Scofield best through his recording with John Medeski, Billy Martin and Chris Wood, A Go Go. His tour in support of that release with Clyde Stubblefield performing for a honeymooning Billy Martin won him a new range of fans. Last month he enlivened the Berkshire Mountain Music Festival with his participation in its all-star jam. On September 25th he'll make his second consecutive appearance at the Autumn Equinox Festival, appearing with his quartet.

John took some time a few days after his performance at Berkfest to speak about the full scope of his career as well as his current and future projects. For updated info, or just to scratch your head in amazement at his complete discography visit www.johnscofield.com.

DB: Let's start off talking about A Go Go, which is probably how some of our readers came to discover your music. How did that come about?

JS: I was a fan of MMW. I had heard their albums and I became convinced when I heard Shack-man that I should play with those guys because the style of music they played was so close to my own. Billy Martin's drumming has a certain kind of looseness and jazziness- it's a New Orleans thing. There has always been a kind of r&b that swung, and it turns out that a lot of it comes from these New Orleans drummers of thirty years ago. I've always tried to play with people who like playing funk type stuff but they're hard to find. A lot of guys who are into funk are more into the fusion style like the Dave Sanborn style, which is great but it's just a different way of playing it. But when I heard these guys I said "This is it, this is who I want to play with." I wanted to make a more funky record. My previous one had been an acoustic record called Quiet, and I was really ready to do something hopping. So I called them and asked them. At that point I knew they were crossing over into some kind of market but I didn't really know what that was. I didn't really know about the jam band scene. I knew about MMW from playing in New York.

DB: How were your songs transformed when you went into the studio with them?

JS: MMW just took the songs and put their own thing on it. It's hard to express in words but they put their personal spin on it. And it worked out that their personal spin made me want to play too and join in. It was never "Oh that's different from what I wanted and I don't like it." It was always "Oh that's a little bit different but it's great." Every song changed because they have such a stylized sound on their own. That was another really fun thing. Usually you get a bunch of musicians and the sound that comes together has its own sound but they already had this own developed thing that they do, and I just fit in.

DB: After that record came out you went out on tour with Clyde Stubblefield. How did that come about?

JS: Well Billy got married and he went out on a honeymoon so he wasn't available.

DB: How did you find Clyde?

JS: I was a fan of his because he had played on all those James Brown records that we all grew up on. He was part of that generation that invented funk. Medeski and Wood were real into him too, and when we were talking about the different possibilities on drums, they said that they had played with Clyde when they were out in Wisconsin and that he was in great shape. So we decided to call him and he agreed to do it. I loved it. He's a great man, a wonderful guy and he really does sit in the groove like nobody else.

DB: Let's move to a related topic. I am curious, to what extent have your audiences changed over the past year or two?

JS: It's certainly different because of the A Go Go record and because of MMW. The audience which is coming to check me out is in part a college audience that wasn't coming to hear me before. Here's what I know about the jam band scene which is admittedly not a lot: it seems like at these festivals that jazz-rock especially (and I use that term lightly, I don't mean a style, I mean any kind of jazz that has a groove, it could be anything from Les McCann to Pharoah Sanders to Miles Davis- that's old stuff), anything that has a groove to it these fans will get right into. This is because the idea of improvisation to them is not at all strange, it's part of the deal. It's part of the whole jam thing. It IS the jam thing. So jazz fits right in. Groups like the Greyboy Allstars and MMW fit right in. So the next step is why not check me out, I've been doing that sort of stuff for a long time. I love the way at these festivals how one band will be kind of bluegrassy, and then there will be this real rock thing happening and then my group which is a jazz group of sorts will come on. And all these groups are getting listened to. The audiences are willing to give varied types of music a chance and they get off on seeing it come together. They get off on a band taking chances and seeing it all happen- that whole magic thing when it does work- it's spiritual and wonderful.

DB: How do these audience react differently from your more traditional jazz audiences?

JS: They react differently because they're dancing, or at least many of them are. A lot of people want to dance which I love. I am not one of those people who gets upset by that. I prefer people to relate physically to the music rather than just to sit there. I get off on it.

DB: Do you think there is a reciprocal energy between yourself and the audience?

JS: Definitely. I've never been mentally so far away from my electric rock and roll guitar roots. I started out playing in seventh grade and high school bands. I love that feeling of it. I love playing in jazz clubs for jazz audiences when people get into it and shout. Our music is primarily hot stuff and it's supposed to be responded to. I know other musicians who aren't like that, who prefer the concert hall serious atmosphere which I like too, and I can understand that. But man, I like it when people get into it. I like it to be a party of sorts.

DB: Tell us a little about your current quartet.

JS: We have Marlon Browden on drums. He's a fantastic drummer from New York City, twenty-six years old and getting better ever day. Will Boulware is on organ. He's my age and he's played with a whole lot of bands, most recently Maceo Parker. He's wonderful. Now on bass is James Genus, who has played with the Brecker Bothers and a bunch of other groups.

DB: Would you describe the quartet's current sound as in the same mode as the music on A Go Go?

JS: Right now it is because we have the same instrumentation. It's definitely in that same A Go Go area but it's going to stretch out as well. Plus I have some new songs.

DB: Will you be heading back to the studio anytime soon?

JS: Yes, and it is going to be different because I am not going to use all the guys in my band. First of all I've decided to make an album without organ. This is because not only A Go Go but the two albums before that, Groove Elation and Hand Jive had Larry Goldings on organ. I love organ. It's like you love devil's food cake but at a certain point you have to stop eating it for a bit. So the organ orgy is going to be over on my next record. Just because it is such an identifiable sound. So there's going to be no organ and then I'm going to play with a bunch of different rhythm sections that I like. The drummer Erik Kalb and the percussionist Johnny Durkin from Deep Banana Blackout are going to play along with a bass player named Davey Livolsi who is Erik's friend. They came over to play in the basement of my house and we got into some really good stuff. I am trying to get Chris Wood to that session but I'm not sure if he's in town. Then I also have the rhythm section, bass and drums from a group called Sex Mob, that's Tony Sherr and Kenny Wollenson. Those are guys I've known from the New York scene and I love the way they play. I will also have Mark Di Gli Antoni who is the keyboard player from Soul Coughing. Actually he's more than a keyboard player, he's a sonic environmentalist. Actually I'm not sure what he does because I don't know how he does it- he's going to come out and I'm real excited about that. Since I'm not having any organ on the record I thought there would be room for him to come in and do his thing.

DB: When do you think that will be released?

JS: Next spring. The working title is Loose Canon.

DB: You sat in with Deep Banana recently. Is that how you came to play with Erik and Johnny?

JS: Exactly. I sat in with them at the Berkfest and also at the Gathering of the Vibes. That's a band who immediately I heard and I could relate to what they were doing.

DB: Speaking of Berkfest, I'd love to hear your thoughts on that jam? (John performed in the Saturday afternoon Allstar Berkfest jam with Bob Moses, Oteil Burbridge, DJ Logic, Fuzz, Nate Wilson, Karl Denson, Rob Somerville and Dr. Didg.

JS: It was wild. I think Bobby Moses is one of the greatest drummers and certainly one of the most underrated ones. Unfortunately I couldn't hear him and I was standing right next to him. And Oteil is great, I have so much respect for him. Fuzzy from Deep Banana, we've become friends- he can really play. The keyboard player from Percy- he turned out to be really good too.

DB: There were a lot of players up there. To what extent did you huddle up and discuss what you were going to do before you went out there?

JS: We didn't work anything out. So we did what typically happens when certain players come together in that type of situation is we found our way into songs like "Chameleon" and "Cissy Strut" and then just let them go anywhere. The other thing was DJ Logic was there and he's a real improviser and he just gets cool stuff going. I had a blast. The wonderful thing about the audience that day is we were just taking a chance and they were aware of that. They understood the whole process and they got into it.

DB: Speaking of festivals you also have the Autumn Equinox coming up. You played there last year, right?

JS: I was there with the Stubblefield, Medeski, Wood thing. That's a great festival. I love that spot, Wilmers's Park. People love it there, and Tim Walther Productions has done so many successful festivals now that it's become a big thing for people all over the east coast.

DB: Jumping backwards, one fact that I know will interest our readers is that in the mid-seventies you played with Billy Cobham and Alphonso Johnson, who recently started performing in Jazz is Dead [editor's note- although Cobham has left the group- replaced by Jeff Sipe and Rod Morgenstein].

JS: That was almost my first big time jazz gig.

DB: Right out of Berklee?

JS: Right out of Berklee. In 1974 the first thing I did was play with Gerry Mulligan, and that was a wonderful thing. He picked me up to play in his band. The first record I was on was Gerry Mulligan and Chet Baker Live at Carnegie Hall. I left Gerry Mulligan's band after a few months because Bill Cobham called me. You may have heard him with Jazz Is Dead but in 1974 he had the Billy Cobham Band and the Brecker Brothers were in it and then they left and Alphonso Johnson was in it and the great George Duke. Right now it's funny because I meet all these young musicians at these festivals who were into old George Duke records and that record I made with Cobham, Duke and Alphonso Johnson- these records from the 70's.

DB: How did you come to perform with Mulligan and Baker?

JS: I have this other aspect to my playing in that I've always loved straight ahead jazz and I can fit in that context too. Gerry Mulligan came to Boston and he needed a guitar player. A wonderful drummer from Boston, Alan Dawson, recommended me. If someone only heard me on A Go Go and then went to hear me play with Gerry Mulligan they would almost wonder if it's the same guy but it is.

DB: You also performed with Charles Mingus. How did that come about?

JS: I played with Cobham band for two years and then that broke up, and I got a call to play with Mingus on his album 3 or 4 Shades of Blues. It was a great experience. Mingus had never recorded with guitar so he got me and Larry Coryell and Philip Catherine another great guitarist and we went into studio with Mingus to make that record. I got lucky.

DB: I'm curious, for our readers who have heard Mingus' name but aren't sure where to start, what disc would you recommend?

JS: My favorite Mingus record of all time is Mingus Ah Um. It's a beautiful small big band with four or five horns. Great writing. This music transcends categories like much great music.

DB: Chet Baker was in the midst of a comeback when you played with him, right?

JS: In 1974 he had returned from Europe and he was in great shape. I got to play with him later on You Can't Go Home Again.. Michael Brecker was also on that album and Tony Williams played drums. I was really lucky because in the late 70's there were still some of these giants of jazz on the scene. During that time I made a record with a trumpet player named Terumasa Hino who was Japan's leading trumpet player. He made a record with me, Tony Williams and Ron Carter. That was a thrill.

DB: And then there's Miles. How did you come to join his band?

JS: I started playing with Miles a couple of years later, in 1982. I had played in a band with a great, underrated saxophone player named Dave Liebman. He had played in Miles' band in the 70's before Miles retired. Miles retired for like six years and then came back on the scene in 1981, and a year later he called. Actually he had his saxophonist Bill Evan call and say "Come to Cleveland" that same day. And I said "Okay I'll be there" to play with Miles. Then I stayed in his band for three years.

DB: What did you take away from that experience?

JS: It was the greatest for me. It was an affirmation of my musical values. Getting to see Miles putting these things into practice affirmed it all for me. He believed completely in musical spontaneity and the power of the moment, letting it happen, and the absolute value of improvisation. I mean this is the guy who started everybody playing loose. He really would take chances. He would go into the studio with a bare framework and just see what happened. And then he would sculpt the music. It was really different from the western tradition of writing everything out. What he did in that day really influences the process of music today. He really tapped into a natural way of doing things.

DB: How open were the individual gigs?

JS: Well we had themes worked out but between those it was really loose. He would direct us with hand signals because the music was mostly vamps and themes. It was different every nigh as we followed his directions.

DB: Speaking of Miles, a few years ago you also toured with Herbie Hancock.

JS: That's another of my idols I got to play with. His style of piano playing influenced us all on every instrument. He's another giant. When it comes to playing piano and really going for it every night I can't think of anybody who's better than him at all. He's beyond words. He was there with Miles when they really took jazz to another level. He's another god to me. And Joe Henderson, a great saxophonist. I've got to play with him over the past couple years, and I feel the same about him as I do those other guys. So I've been really lucky: right place, right time, and been able to pay with some of the greats. A dream come true, really.

Dean very much hopes to speak with John again for a future issue of jambands.com. Until then, for those people who only know the guitarist's work through A Go Go, John recommends his early records on Grammavision: Still Warm, Blue Matter, Electric Outlet and Pick Hits Live. You may want to check out his Blue Note records with Larry Goldings: Groove Elation and Hind Jive. His personal favorite is Time On My Hands, which he recorded with Joe Lovano on saxophone.