The following chat with moe. vocalist-guitarist Al Schnier covers much ground. Among
other topics, it touches on Dither, the band’s seventh and best album to date; their
co-producer/engineer, John Siket; moe.down, their Labor Day Weekend music
festival in their home turf of Upstate New York with The Radiators, Cracker,
Soulive, Lo Faber Band, The New Deal, Project/Object, Donna the Buffalo,
The Wailers and many others; a look at the crowded summer concert scene;
moe.‘s club act, Monkeys On Ecstasy; the band’s Fatboy Records and its
burgeoning, post-major label (Sony 550) independent operation, including a
recent tour of Japan; and several tasty upcoming plans, both solo and with
moe. All in all, quite an exhausting menu, bot not surprising given Al’s energy
and that of the band. After reading this interview, visit moe.org for more details
about moe.down and other band news.

‘Dither’ is your best album. How did that come to be?

This is the closest we’ve come to self-producing an album. We didn’t have
a producer. John Siket … co-produced this album with us, but it was more
like he was one of the team in the decision-making and creative process. In
the past, we worked under somebody’s guidance. This time, we did it as a
team. That’s why we gave John co-production credit. It really was a fun
process, and I think it worked out fairly well.

When we set out to record the album, we did not intend to record an
album. We just booked studio time. When we had some free time, we’d lay down
a few songs and continue to tour. If we had a day off in San Francisco, we’d
lay down a few tracks. After a few times, we had a dozen songs and it was
well on the way to being an album. Then last summer we went into the studio
to start chiseling away at those songs. That process was different than any
before. Usually we go into the studio intending to make an album. We record
the songs from the ground up and have an album. This time, we composed
material, deconstructed it and cut and paste it back together. It was an
interesting process. We basically all sat around the control room
brainstorming each song and section as they came up. It’s not as
cost-effective as the traditional way to do an album, but it was a lot more
fun and yielded much better results.

How much did John Siket have to do with that?

He’s a great engineer. He really knows his stuff in the studio.
Everything from the oldest, most traditional analog gear to cutting-edge
stuff. He knows the tools. He’s also worked with such a wide variety of bands
that get really creative in the studio, like Sonic Youth and Yo La Tengo.
He’s done everything from working at Mutiny Zoo in Hoboken to working with
Steve Lillywhite with a nearly limitless budget for a major studio album. He
really does know everything in between. We sit there and describe a sound to
him or effect we’re going for. We could say, "I want this to sound like
underwater but the ocean and not a pond." and he lives for that kind of stuff.
That’s a lot of fun for him. That’s his element. He’s at home there, and it’s
a pleasure to work with him. Not only that, but the guy is a true rock fan
who knows every song by every band. He knows band’s entire catalogs, what
year the album came out, who produced them, great stuff like that.

What do you like most about Dither?

It felt that it was sonically our best album to date. I liked what we did
with the songs. We can stand by this album and still stand by it 10 years
from now. It was a step in the right direction in the studio. Not to say we
wouldn’t enjoy going into the studio to cut a serious roots album. But it’s a
step in the right direction for us and really only the tip of the iceberg of
what moe. can do in the studio. We’re all for putting out a very involved
album, like Dark Side of the Moon, OK Computer or Sgt. Pepper. But
there’s talk about possibly going into the studio to do a raw, rootsy record
too. That might be next. Then something with strings might be down the road
somewhere.

In the Fall, we plan to release the first in a series of bootleg,
soundboard-type recordings. We’re going to start releasing entire shows.
They’ll be low-budget triple-disc sets, an easy way for people to get live
shows, prepackaged and ready to go. The taper community has access for people
who are in touch with that whole scene, but there’s a lot of people not
involved in it. It’s easier for them to go to a record store. So we’re making
the series available to them. We want to do a release every year aside from
our real albums. We’re shooting for the end of October.

Then we have several possibilities for the next real album. There’s even
the possibility of multi-tracking shows for the release of a live album of
new material, like Eat a Peach or Europe ’72 and other classic albums
from the ’70s that had new material rather than a parade of hits. The newer
songs may be better suited to the stage rather than the studio. We just need
to find the time and the money. Now if we could just stop being a touring
band and be The Beatles, we’d be all set.

What most excites you about this year’s moe.down?

We’re just doing what we did last year but improving upon it. A lot of it
is just details that people wouldn’t be concerned with. We really get
involved with every aspect of organizing the festival, from the potties to
security. It really doesn’t concern the average person so much.

One thing we’re psyched about having is the kids tent. Our crowd’s
getting a bit older. We wanted to offer some outlet for kids. People may not
come based on the fact that they have kids. At least now there’s an option.
It’s not that we’re encouraging an influx of kids to a rock festival, but
when they do, we’ll have a place for them. We brainstormed a bunch of
activities for the kid’s tent. We have clowns and … we’re getting guys from
the mainstage acts to do a small, short set for the kids only. We don’t want
the kids tent overrun with tapers.

We’re also having a golf tournament. It’s the Friday afternoon. It’s a
big golf outing with members of various bands that will benefit a charity. We nearly got a mountain
bike race off the ground, but we’ll wait till next year. The golf tournament
will be before the start of the festival.

Who are you most looking forward to jamming with at moe.down and why?

I’d have to say David Lowery from Cracker because he’s one of my favorite
songwriters. I’ve been a fan of his since the mid-‘80s with Camper Van
Beethoven. That’s one of the most influential bands for me, one of my
favorites. Even the stuff he went on do with Cracker was amazing. I love his
sardonic wit. He just writes some great songs. I look forward to seeing their
set, and I hope we get to play together. I know some of the guys from Camper
Van Beethoven will be with him that weekend, and the show will include older
material.

Besides the fact that you like them, what do most of the moe.down acts have in common?

I would say most are in pursuit of some sort of higher quality of music.
Most have escaped the mainstream radar. They don’t fall prey to the
commercial trappings that some other bands do … for better or worse. Most
of them receive great critical acclaim. It’s important to us that the music
be the first priority. I think that’s the case with all the bands there. So
we share that. After that, the music varies greatly. I don’t think there’s
anything that anyone would find too offensive. None of it is too harsh. Some
of it demands an attentive or critical audience. It’s not just a fist-pumping
good time. Not to say that all the acts don’t have easily likeable songs. We
share common traits, yet Cracker doesn’t sound like The Radiators and The
Wailers sound nothing like Project/Object, but it would all fit nicely on a radio station or at a festival. It
should make for a good day of music outside. That’s the plan. We just want
the stuff to go over well and keep people interested. I think there’s enough
variety. It’s not all metal bands or jam bands for that matter.

It seems like everybody’s a jam band these days.

There’s been a huge rise in the popularity of these weekend festivals in
the last three to five years. It seems like everybody has one. There’s
usually one every weekend, no matter where you live, within an eight-hour
drive. It makes it difficult to host one and have it be unique. Also, trying
to organize a summer tour has become increasingly difficult not only because
of all these festivals but also all the touring festivals. There’s just so
much competition in the summer for people’s money essentially. So much music
is offered, it makes it difficult to book a viable tour. We came very close
to throwing in the towel. There was no state or region where we wouldn’t be
in direct competition.

In the end, we wanted to be out there for our fans. And we had a great
summer. It was one of our best tours. It turned out great and we played
great. It wasn’t nearly as difficult as we imagined it would be. But that
doesn’t change the fact that there’s tons of competition. It’s crazy.

Everyone from the little guys still doing club tours to larger acts
playing sheds and stadiums, ticket sales are suffering this summer more than
ever and there’s been a steady decline in the last few years. I don’t know if
it correlates with all the festivals bands are doing or touring festivals
but the summer concert industry has changed a great deal in the last five
years. We’ve talked of the notion of next summer just playing six weekend
festivals in six different regions of the country rather than trying to go
out four or five week straight to do a real tour. It seems a more viable way
of playing shows. We’d hit all the markets and be dealing with the
competition. That’s one of a half dozen options we discussed on how to
approach next summer. One was a vacation.

*Other than an increased amount of alcohol involved, what’s the difference
between a moe. show and a Monkeys on Ecstasy show?*

Monkeys shows, because they’re scaled down … in clubs, are a much more
intimate setting. Automatically, that means a lot less pressure because
there’s a more casual atmosphere to the show. As far as the music, we might
take requests from the audience or play songs that we don’t know, take
chances we wouldn’t take in front of a sold-out crowd at Central Park. But
playing to 300 diehard fans in a sweaty bar, we’ll let our hair down. Not
that we don’t do that anyway. I think we tend to more casual onstage than
most bands. Maybe too much so for our own good sometimes. But it’s who we
are. We definitely get to do that at a Monkeys shows. We just did a bunch of
them. I noticed right off the bat that when we get to open sections of songs,
we try to push the envelope and take directions we’ve never taken before
because it’s fun and exciting. Not that we don’t do that all the time anyway,
but there seems to be less filters, restraints, less concern for falling flat
on our face.

The Dead were like that a lot of time.

For the better part of their career, they would take chances and
that’s what made it exciting. But it seems to me that the latter part, they
became a lot more complacent and started approaching things in the same way.
The segues weren’t even segues anymore. That was one of their shortcomings in
the end; although it didn’t hurt ticket sales in the least. They would still
sell out stadiums. But frankly, the music didn’t have the same quality it did
years before. It was a cyclical thing. It was not the result of success or
demise. A lot of it had to do with running a corporation and the politics
in becoming a stadium band when they were this experimental theater
band 15 years before that. There was a lot of change for them over the course
of 10 years from 1980 to 1990. The surge in popularity increased so
dramatically that it was a lot for even them to deal with. But they were one
of the most casual bands around.

How are the Transamericans doing?

Transamericans are an on-again, off-again roots rock thing that I do on
the side. I had every intention of doing a Transamericans studio album this
past spring, but I got so busy with moe. that I didn’t even entertain the
notion. Transamericans fills a void not only as an outlet for that music, but
it also keeps my idle hands busy. I’m the sort of person who has to have 25
things going on at once whether it’s getting certified for SCUBA, building a
studio or writing my own textbook on vintage effects pedals. The list grows
and grows. I don’t why I feel so compelled to have so much on my plate, but
the Transamericans is one of those things for me. I haven’t gotten to do that
album, but I want to. It’s just a matter of time.

I actually started work on a solo instrumental electronic album. I’m
about one-third through it. I’ve got five songs done. I just keep running
with it to see what will happen. I hope to get it out in the next three to
five months. I’ll probably do a short tour. It’s electronic somewhere between
Air and maybe Sector 9 or Portishead or Tortoise. It’s not aggressive techno
dance music. It’s a lot more heady. It’s just me, at this point, on the
computer, all the drums, keyboards, horns and bass. Eventually, I’ll overdub
some analog recordings and put some guitar on the album. I’ve been talking to
DJ Logic about a collaboration on one song if not more of the album. That’s a
possibility. Otherwise, it’s just me. I’m going to do some dates, but I’m not
sure how I’m going to approach that.

Describe your experience touring in Japan?

Japan was awesome. It’s an amazing country. It’s sort of staggering to be
with so many people so densely packed into these cities. Tokyo is a city as
widespread as L.A. with the density of Times Square. It’s an interesting
culture. They tend to be more formal. They’re more considerate and
well-mannered, more polite. Respect and consideration are big priorities that
are instilled in them. It’s the vibe you get. It’s really interesting. You
get these kids coming to your show, and they will cheer like crazy and
singalong to all the songs just like a regular rock show, but after the song,
the audience stands in silence waiting for the next tune. It’s amazing how
they go from raucous, enthusiastic, yelling and clapping, then everybody
waits patiently for the next song.

We could tap into a few things from them. We could do well to take some
of their advice. At the same time, it’s an interesting thing that they’re so
hungry for American pop culture. That’s really amusing. What’s American and
popular is OK with them whether it be a brand of soda or a type of music or
fashion, whatever. They’re really, really fashion-conscious, very trendy
people. We saw all this latest and greatest fashion. A lot of the young guys
were hanging out decked out in suits and the latest and coolest hair styles,
talking on cell phones, and the women were in mini skirts, very stylish. We
were wondering before we our first show if these were the people who were
going to see us because most of our fans don’t dress like this. Then out of
nowhere, we pull up to the show and there’s this throng of Japanese hippie
kids. Some even were in a VW microbus playing the Dead and kicking around a
hackysack. They started coming out of the woodwork.

Actually, a wide group of people came to see the shows in Japan. They
were really well-received. We’re going back again in December for a third
time. We’re working on licensing our records in Japan. We hope to do the Fuji
Rock Festival at the base of Mount Fuji, which has, like, 100,000 people.
Last year, it had Beck, Ani DiFranco and Neil Young.

The band constantly reinvests its money to sustain its independent operation. While the business grows what is the one thing that makes living more hand-to-mouth than you otherwise would need to, most worthwhile?

The first is being your own boss, being independent, autonomous. It comes
at a price, several prices. That’s one of them, but it’s a price we’re
willing to pay at this point. We’re young and we can adjust and forego some
of the comforts of life to have it our way. It’s sort of a self-imposed
carrot that we hang in front of ourselves. This could be a huge, successful
operation for us one day. Ultimately, we could find ourselves in the same
position that The Beatles, the Dead, Phish and any number of bands have been
in and be independent throughout, which would be wonderful. I always think of
somebody like Ani DiFranco. I have to remind myself if she can do it, anybody
can do it. That’s not to say she isn’t an incredibly gifted and talented
singer-songwriter, but the notion of being able to do things independently,
she’s proven that it can be done. Look at a band like Radiohead. They really
have had little or no radio success at all in the last six or seven years,
and they are one of the most popular bands based solely on critical acclaim
and doing what they want to do. I think that’s awesome. I hope that someday
we find ourselves in the same position.

We’re doing OK at the rate we’re going. We could have a nice, longterm,
steady career at this and all retire very happily at a normal age without
losing so many hairs along the way. The thing is, this is probably a lot more
rewarding than trying to hold down some civil service position.
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Bob Makin has been writing about moe. since 1993 and jam bands since 1988.
Jam bands and venues can send him info at [email protected] and material to
PO Box 6600, Bridgewater, NJ 08807.